yesterday at 10:59 PM
Adjacent to this, my life got immeasurably better when I stopped trying to prove myself to everyone. I always tried to share my ideas and opinions in every meeting. I was obsessed with trying to "read" people to figure out their unspoken priorities, what made them tick, trying to predict what they would say and do next, and match my actions to elicit their approval.
What a huge goddamn waste of time that was.
It got to a point that to preserve my sanity at work, I kept my head down, did the work that needed to be done (whether assigned or not), stopped going to meetings I didn't care about, and stayed mostly silent in all others. All the while dreaming of a new career or early retirement. But then a strange thing happened... It turns out that if your reputation is one of quiet confidence, people start to actually listen. They assume that when you do talk, it's only going to be about something important and worth hearing. Instead of co-workers on other teams trying to throw their work over the wall at you, they begin every innocent question with an apology: "hey, I know you're super busy, but I was wondering if I could bug you real quick..." Borderline indifference is so far my favorite superpower that I've accidentally discovered.
yesterday at 11:12 PM
Yes, similar experience.
yesterday at 9:25 PM
From experience: it works, and can be an effective tactic when no other options are available.
Long-term, it can be hard to sustain, and maybe a bit unhealthy â it becomes a form of self-betrayal, where you repeatedly suppress genuine negative feelings about dealing with someone difficult. These feelings are there for a reason, even if expressing them with the person triggering them would be counterproductive.
Also, in more extreme cases, the sort of people who are prone to creating drama and conflict pick up on the technique and make it into a battle of wills â who will break and give up first. And they may be a lot better at it than you are, because for them it is a central feature of their personality, and for you it's just a tactic for immediate relief.
yesterday at 9:46 PM
Well said. In essence grey rocking itself is a form of defensive manipulation. Most of us are prosocial and find it really laborious to keep up. It's an ok tactic when communication is ineffective or harmful. It is probably a bad idea to use it with someone you simply have a point of friction with. It can be hard to know the difference sometimes though.
yesterday at 10:46 PM
Maybe, but not all of us really need to do this. It seems to me that âgray rockingâ is a corrective strategy for the type of person who easily overreacts.
Put another way, the type of person who is naturally âboringâ and not very reactive probably wonât get themselves tangled with the kind of person that needs to be âgrey rockedâ. If you are always a gray rock, then you are not an easy target for a manipulator.
today at 12:04 AM
Manipulation is right. It can also be used as an offensive manipulation. In relationships, grey rocking can be a punitive form of emotional abuse. Adjacent to silent treatment or stonewalling. Sometimes people may justify it to themselves as a tactic for when communication is ineffective, but more often than not, itâs avoiding the type of communication thatâs needed in healthy relationships.
today at 12:13 AM
[dead]
yesterday at 9:58 PM
I knew a person who constantly grayrocked even people she has never met before who she totally could have been open with. Just like any method you can use or abuse it.
If you find yourself in the blast radius of an abusive narcissistic person for example, grayrocking is totally a decent way to deal with them, while keeping your calm. But using it towards everybody whom you're not 100% on board with is probably a bit overkill.
yesterday at 10:59 PM
> Long-term, it can be hard to sustain, and maybe a bit unhealthy â it becomes a form of self-betrayal, where you repeatedly suppress genuine negative feelings about dealing with someone difficult.
It is unhealthy simply because it's a rebranded form of passive aggression. The real problem is not yet having figured out why someone like that can get under your skin in the first place.
The exact same situations that can bubble up unhealthy amounts of negative emotion in younger people don't do that in older people. Older people have already been there and done that. They fully understand the behavior and instead of anger or retaliation they usually feel pity or nothing at all. Which mind do you think is healthier?
In other words, there's no escaping life's lessons. Your best bet is to minimize the unavoidable consequences and stay out of trouble. For sure, a big part of that is cutting out bullshit like Esquire. This "grey rocking" stuff is just woo woo nonsense that was meant to prime you for ads that already happened back in 2021.
today at 12:14 AM
> Your best bet is to minimize the unavoidable consequences and stay out of trouble.
That's the exact definition of "grey rocking." It's a harm minimization technique taught to victims of narcissists who are unable to immediately get away from the narcissist. Examples would be people who must stay in contact because of kids, or someone planning an escape over the course of weeks/months.
I know someone personally in the latter category. "Grey rocking" for the week prior to their escape was indeed "their best bet" and definitely not "woo woo."
yesterday at 11:15 PM
Huh, I guess so!
yesterday at 9:19 PM
I like the idea of a Yellow Rock, still shining, smiling and being the positive old self, just giving absolutely nothing in return for toxic behavior... In my situation, morale improved across the department and the mental beatings came to an end.
Grey Rock method worked against a particularly toxic work conflict that was keeping me awake at night... but... the reality was that it produced zero work results for any of us.
yesterday at 9:21 PM
I had a difficult family member who used to give drama, telling intense and fantastical stories. My go to word just became a simple âYikesâ and then silence.
After a while they tended not to talk to me at family functions.
I use it when dealing with over-sharers or people who are after a reaction and attention.
yesterday at 9:44 PM
Grey rock is a very valuable technique, but also often a symptom of having low boundaries yourself. It can be exciting to have the attention of a grandiose person at first, but having people you can't say no to is a huge problem.
Anyone having these sorts of people problems I would highly recommend https://youtube.com/@DoctorRamani
yesterday at 10:25 PM
She is amazing. I particularly recommend the older "glossary" videos.
yesterday at 11:07 PM
I find Ramani to be rather contemptuous of or bitter about people she doesn't like. In other words, to me she comes across as somewhat hypocritical.
If you enjoy Ramani, you may also want to read the works of Dr. Lindsay Gibson. She does a great job of guiding people who suffer from having emotionally immature parents, without dehumanizing them. She doesn't even use clinical terms in her books, even though she is a clinical psychologist. The principles are the same even if the people you are struggling with are not your parents.
today at 12:18 AM
Therapists can get burned out, especially those who work with NPD people, and Ramani seems over it. Unfortunately that comprises her usefulness as a therapist and as a source of expert advice. Dr. Mark Ettensohn of the YouTube channel Heal NPD is a better source, imo.
Ramani specializes in NPD. People with NPD are not able to provide for themselves emotionally so they rely on others, their ânarcissist supplyâ, to which they become dependent. Itâs very much like addiction, except instead of abusing a substance, they end up abusing people in order to meet their needs; people become objects and resources instead of being people. That objectification, if not treated, is how narcissism spreads. Thatâs the great benefit of grey rocking; they arenât attracted to people who donât give them energy and will leave them alone. Yellow rocking is a more positive way to interact with the world, but you have to be really good at setting boundaries, otherwise someone with NPD will misjudge polite engagement as a willingness to give them energy. With NPD people, imho itâs more kind to grey rock, as yellow rocking can make them feel rejected, which adds to their trauma. Like addiction, the thing that helps them recover is to be cut off from their supply, so they can learn to provide for their own emotional needs instead of relying on external sources. Very often empathetic people unintentionally end up acting as enablers which causes more harm. Objectification harms the objectifier as well as the person being objectified; if they see others as objects, they internalize that themselves as well, and become the source of their own trauma.
yesterday at 10:00 PM
Doesn't this just lead to being steamrolled on every decision or would be conflict? Seems like it would work if the person is addicted to drama but not if they're happy to simply use you.
To me it seems like the crux of the technique is "don't engage in drama" but making yourself lesser to do that seems problematic.
yesterday at 10:21 PM
I believe the goal of gray-rocking here is to defend yourself against overly dramatic and abusive bullies which you are forced to have some minimal contact with (family member, co-worker on another team, friend-of-a-friend), not someone you have to deal and negotiate with daily. Those require different and situation-dependent strategies.
It's not making yourself lesser, it's basically "not taking the bait," which is very much a strength, not a weakness.
yesterday at 10:12 PM
I think it depends on the power dynamic. Itâs probably easier to implement with family members outside of your home than your manager.
yesterday at 10:22 PM
I've found this helpful for getting along with family who I know wouldn't like certain aspects of my life but for whom going no-contact is more trouble than it's worth.
"How's your job?" "About the same. Still just working with computers."
"Any girls in your life?" "Nah not really. Hard to meet people these days."
"What kind of music do you listen to?" "Whatever they play on the radio I guess"
"You go to church?" "When I can"
"Who are you voting for?" "I haven't thought about it too much. Who are you voting for?"
Answer the question but reveal nothing and they have nothing to pry at. Worst case, turn it around and let them talk about themselves for awhile. Throw in a "Uh huh," "Oh man," and "I'd never thought about it like that" every few minutes until it's time to go.
yesterday at 9:00 PM
yesterday at 9:15 PM
Denied :/
Edit: Oh lol. I guess you just have to click the captcha. Never seen that in an archive before.
yesterday at 9:32 PM
archive.is/ph/today/etc has been doing that for a long time
Though it might possibly vary depending where you come from, using cloudflare for dns, what browser plugins in effect, etc.
yesterday at 11:32 PM
I can say from experience, years ago, that this doesn't work as a kid in school.
yesterday at 10:22 PM
If this article resonated - I highly recommend Bill Eddy and his books and podcasts. He does a good job on providing nomenclature - 4 or 5 cluster B personality disorders which he tones down to "high-conflict person" and patterns on dealing with them.
yesterday at 9:42 PM
And what do I do if I am already really, really boring as heck?
yesterday at 10:01 PM
For those of us who are not harassed by people seeking drama... I guess we read a different article.
yesterday at 11:36 PM
Sit back and enjoy being in credit for once!
yesterday at 9:57 PM
Mission accomplished
yesterday at 11:13 PM
I worry this idea is being taken up as the next trend in our societal descent into antisocial avoidance.
Could it be useful if cornered by a predator at a bar, or a technique for dealing with racist grandma you can't otherwise engage with? I guess. But more likely this will be co-opted as an excuse for being unresponsive to their partners, friends, co-workers, etc., shutting down communication exactly when it is most impactful.
Be warned this is NOT a reasonable way to engage with the world. I dread a future where this is normalized into a real world form of ghosting, which is already a terrible trend turning everyone into avoidant turtles.
It is harmful to both parties - they don't know why you avoided them so they can't fix anything, and you lose assertiveness and the ability to handle any level of discomfort. And as a society we grow more and more disconnected until we simply stop breeding, like pandas.
today at 12:10 AM
Yep avoidance is massively damaging to people around the person adopting these strategies. In attachment theory for example, avoidance is basically the most harmful way of participating in romantic relationships, and caused massive trauma for partners.
But I agreed, modern society seems to be normalizing these tactics. Instead of encouraging people to do the hard work of behaving in healthy ways.
yesterday at 11:13 PM
It's also a tactic to use when bullied, but you need to be aware that this is what is happening and take other steps to stop it. Bullies will use any emotion you display against you. Happy about something? It's dumb and so are you. Sad about something? You're pathetic. Becoming an expressionless rock is a viable way to cut off that particular avenue of abuse, although they will likely find others.
If you find yourself doing this out of self-defence with someone, they're likely a bully and you should do your best to cut them out of your life. Rocks can still be pissed on. Another thing to be wary of is that, if you spend too much time grey rocking, you might become a rock to people who are kind to you.
Bottom line, if you need to "grey rock", you have a problem that might require a better solution.
yesterday at 10:14 PM
I don't really get this framing. You can not engage with drama and also not be boring or use this label. So maybe just do that?
yesterday at 10:26 PM
Yeah, I would just call it, "don't take the bait." But I guess giving this a label helps some people internalize it as a technique they can deliberately practice. Which isn't really a bad thing.
yesterday at 10:51 PM
I have a lot of experience with this, and it sucks. But it works. People will learn to stop expecting things out of you that don't happen. And once there's nothing left for them, they will lose interest completely.
yesterday at 9:44 PM
Bless your heart, back home we call it southern hospitality.
yesterday at 9:27 PM
What a dramatic way to describe not participating in drama.
Give it a name, capitolized even, and exhort to embody being less flappable with all your might.
It's kind of like how religious people can only conceptualize atheism as the atheist religion.
It's goofy.
Next there will be GreyRock Scrum Masters to teach everyone the Principles of not taking invalid things seriously.
yesterday at 9:42 PM
k
yesterday at 9:03 PM
Paywall
yesterday at 9:08 PM
yesterday at 10:29 PM
Some prepubescent edgy Cosmo writer somehow got published in Esquire (alas just about everybodyâs standards have slipped), so good for her - but itâs impossible to get through this type of writing.
yesterday at 10:43 PM
They have to give these silly names to ordinary things. "SinkGhosting is the toxic behavior ruining 46% of relationships..." not doing the dishes.
yesterday at 9:01 PM
Sounds like stoicism.
yesterday at 9:17 PM
Not really. Stoicism is first and foremost about how you deal with yourself. Gray-rocking is a tactic for dealing with others. I suppose it fits with Stoicism in that dealing effectively with others can be good for you.
yesterday at 9:15 PM
Itâs different in application. Grey-rocking is where you maintain firm boundaries but otherwise refuse to engage in drama.
This has the effect of completely disabling people who thrive on causing drama, or people like my neighbour who only seem to be content when everyone else is making accommodations for her poorly-behaved kid and/or telling her how hard her life must be.
People like that will decide one day that theyâre not getting enough attention so they will create situations where they have the opportunity to be offended about $issueDuJour. Grey-rocking prevents them from their parasocial behavior using you as leverage.