today at 12:56 PM
I've been experimenting with a lot of these learning skills (see also, e.g., https://github.com/mattpocock/skills/blob/main/skills/produc..., which I think addresses the progress tracking part better than this skill) and they're great for getting simple answers, getting unstuck on exercises, getting some intuition through simulations, etc, but I still feel some more structure is needed for effective self-teaching. Has anyone tried using a hard book as a sort of course structure and asking the LLM to teach you through it? You could of course just read the book, but a lot of advanced subjects don't have great learning materials.
today at 7:23 AM
This is really cool. I think we will see more of these, inching towards 'refined' thought and expression percolating from AI models into human minds.
I noticed that the quality of email text has gone up around my work these days. everyone is sounding like a master of drafting emails. Ofcourse Ai has a role in it. But real cool thing about this is, this is pulling up people's thinking to have a structure, minimalism and sequencing of expression. Same as how textile industry has enabled people to have an style and expression in clothing.
today at 10:07 AM
> Same as how textile industry has enabled people to have an style and expression in clothing.
I'd tend to agree with what you said, except this part. Mass produced clothing is fantastic for many reasons, but not for style and expression. Look at the traditional clothing from almost any part of the world and it was gorgeous and colorful. Now it's all just a t-shirts.
today at 11:04 AM
> Look at the traditional clothing from almost any part of the world and it was gorgeous and colorful.
Was it?
There's a lot of survivorship bias in old things; we don't see the things which weren't recorded. Old things had their style, that much is unavoidable, but before mass production normal people inherited their clothes because it was just that hard to create.
Also, a lot of the pigments we take for granted today didn't exist at any price in the pre-industrial era, and some which did involved trekking to a mine in Afghanistan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarine
This also means (in general, not specifically clothing) a lot of "traditional" things are post-industrial recreations or re-imaginings of the past.
today at 11:39 AM
spoke to a clothing historian in Europe years ago. Pigments, shoes, and washing have improved… But all clothes being tailored and more craftsman made the experience better.
She said she’d only choose the modern era because of the washing machine.
today at 12:09 PM
Before the stitching machine arrived in my village, all you can see was large rectangular pieces of cloths, delivered directly from the weaver craftsmen of the village, for men and women alike (only color difference - white for men and mostly dark green for women). The washermen still delivered clothes correctly across dozen's of families everyday, after washing. The famous Indian Saree is an example of unstitched clothing. Dhoti, lungi, turban and towel are other forms rectangular clothing.
People had cultivated an art in how the rectangular cloths are wrapped around them and they clothes are secured at their waist, or around their head. Talk to a Sikh or Afghan about turban.
today at 10:43 AM
It was gorgeous and colourful, but highly impersonal. Traditional clothing, almost by definition, isn't really an enabler of personal style and expression. And you can't really compare traditional clothing to day-to-day clothing, these are entirely different purposes and codes.
Day-to-day clothing is definitely not "all just tshirts" nowadays, even in the mainstream. Women fashion is very varied, and while men's fashion is a lot poorer there's still a huge spectrum of expressive clothing that's available. I don't think personal style and expression has ever been as available and encouraged as it is today.
today at 11:40 AM
> It was gorgeous and colourful, but highly impersonal.
So is mass-produced clothing. Go into any store, and you will see the same shit with very few variations. For actual personality you have to search for niche/hand-made/small-productions etc.
today at 11:39 AM
today at 12:44 PM
today at 10:27 AM
It's not really good that email (and written content overall) quality has gone up. The problem is that there's tons of high quality content but no way to know which content is useful or good. Before we could know someone's personality from their style, now everyone's just wearing Balenciaga.
today at 12:26 PM
> textile industry has enabled people to have an style and expression in clothing
That’s a very good analogy!
today at 7:40 AM
I love this positive take :)
today at 12:19 PM
today at 9:37 AM
today at 8:03 AM
And, hilariously, as an AI booster, I personally dislike it, because now everyone sounds like they have a PR company ( and the same PR company come to think of it ). It was bad before in corporate land, but the level of standardization for optimized response is aggravating to me, when I am simply trying to have a short conversation.
Case in point, I reached about syllabus to my kid's teacher. Long story short, email ended with their boss, who sent me long winding non-answer that I had to resist to not knock down.
I dunno, generic executive summaries can be canned, but I would like to hope I pay them enough for an person to person exchange.
today at 8:52 AM
I have resorted to asking some people "just send me the prompt", like as messy as it might be, I will get the gist much faster than reading through Claudish or Gptinglsh which my eyes gloss over half the text
today at 10:23 AM
If they are copying and pasting the answers and replies how will it "pull up people's thinking"?
today at 11:29 AM
I have Ai read those emails and condense into one sentence summaries.
I’m not reading all that. I want one word answers.
Also noticed huge uptick in “call me” emails.
today at 9:20 AM
> everyone is sounding like a master of drafting emails
> this is pulling up people's thinking to have a structure, minimalism and sequencing of expression
I see the same for the former but the opposite on the latter. Everyone sounds like expert drafters because the AI is doing all of that.
True to the "use it or lose it" principle, the people's thinking skills about the emails have weakened. They rely on giving the AI some bits of info, a document they never read, some vague instructions, and the AI molds the message with structure and sequence. Then I get to experience live the joy of discussing with these people face to face and they still just spit out disparate bits of information with no fluid structure and sequence for the ideas because the only time they thought about the topic was when the AI wrote an email about it.
today at 10:05 AM
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today at 7:40 AM
Socratic questions are not asked blindly. They are meant to help the student to realize the incompleteness or falsety of what they think they know. That us, to realise they do not actually know something and thus put them into a position of not knowing, which is the only way to gain understanding.
One man said, that enlightement (as in Zen) cannot be faked. Whoever had it, will be able to tell if someone else had it or not. There is no way to merely sound like it. Socratic method is like enlightement.
today at 12:47 PM
I think there could be some ways to fake this, using RAG or some other kind of agentic process, but in terms of the true meaning of the phrase, this is one of the things that is very far from being replaced by AI- an interaction between two people where a question that seems simple on the face of it is actually exactly what the learner needed to hear at the exact right time.
Very few teachers get to do this or are good enough, but it's just as much a question of relationships than anything else- how do you pose the exact right problem so that the learner can discover something for themselves.
today at 9:33 AM
Socratic questioning needs a lot of thinking to arrive at the realization (and be able to accept it) that one has incomplete knowledge.
I think about this, whenever I have questions which are related to morality and how people act.
today at 10:39 AM
The problem is that everyone else can't tell, and that there's a lot of incentive to fake it. See Saints and Psychopaths by Hamilton.
I think this same phenomenon — faking competence, or good intentions — extends beyond spirituality as well.
today at 8:00 AM
today at 9:11 AM
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today at 9:51 AM
I’ve struggled to get AI to teach me things well without spilling hints or giving answers away. Assuming this was built on some solid evals this could be awesome.
> When the user is wrong, do not give the answer. Ask a narrower question that exposes the contradiction in their reasoning
today at 10:45 AM
It's a prompt - the LLM will always inevitably veer off path and stop following instructions / start hallucinating.
today at 10:03 AM
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today at 10:57 AM
This is a cool idea. Though trying this out using the claude CLI is kind of funny because by default it's suggestion for the next prompt is the answer to the question.
today at 11:17 AM
Indeed! To turn that off, open /config and turn off Prompt suggestions.
today at 9:32 AM
Oh this is so good. I asked it to teach me programming in Logo; though the model is not the best (GLM 4.7, on pi), the tutor is asking very good questions and is not too pedantic about exact answers.
For those new (beginners), install pi from pi.dev and then your favorite AI model (ask your model how to set up pi and it). Then ask your pi-based AI how to set up the tutor (just give it this link, it will set it up for you).
Then start pi by typing pi in the terminal; and to launch the tutor preface your question with: /skill:socratic-tutor. Like so:
/skill:socratic-tutor teach me Python.
today at 8:38 AM
Socratic tutoring is the first thing I did when ChatGPT first shipped. Your liberal arts education is a "huge unlock" if you just apply it.
See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastery_learning
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmed_learning
Make your own custom skinner boxes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber
today at 9:59 AM
its offtopic but that Programmed learning wikipedia article is really bad. It's clearly written by someone with personal stake in it and isn't remotely encyclopedic in tone.
Not sure what to do about it because I don't care enough to learn everything about this topic in order to fix it.
today at 1:03 PM
Comparing the opening sentences:
> Programmed learning (or programmed instruction) is a research-based system which helps learners work successfully. The method is guided by research done by a variety of applied psychologists and educators.
I have no idea what programmed learning is, only that it has an alternative name, that it has scientific street cred and that it is effective according to some nebulous definition of successful.
as opposed to:
> Mastery learning is an instructional strategy and educational philosophy that emphasizes the importance of students achieving a high level of competence (e.g., 90% accuracy) in prerequisite knowledge before moving on to new material.
which is gives me a more clear idea of what the core philosophy is behind it.
Can the programmed learning page be marked as low-quality, non-encyclopedic? That is already a good signal to have.
today at 8:54 AM
Socratic tutoring with LLMs works great for me and I have used this skill and it also works great (can you do the same with a simple prompt? probably)
Using LLMs this way was really refreshing, I could really feel how I started to think on my own again.
today at 8:57 AM
I also like this skill. It's one of the few I've used the longest: more than a year now which is a century in LLM years. Although you have to remember to ask the LLM to fill its context before starting the questions.
Especially nice when you are not so sure how something should look like, so it makes you stop and spend a few hours answering questions and thinking about what you want to do. Combine that with the RFC skill and you get a good basis for your feature and then a skill to split the RFC to issues on Linear.
today at 8:06 AM
Been using this with Opus 5.5 on Medium for a week or so. I've used the same model for learning before and I definitely prefer using this skill because it stops the model from the usual handholding. Although I'd say most of the effect can be replicated with this line: "When the user is wrong, do not give the answer. Ask a narrower question that exposes the contradiction in their reasoning."
last Tuesday at 10:41 AM
I love the idea but Jane Street might have copied (or independently rediscovered) https://github.com/bevibing/socrates-skill
today at 6:55 AM
If you read them, the skills are completely different (with the Jane Street skill being more complex). Socratic questioning [0] is a well-known technique. Indeed, a Github search returns 92 repositories for "socratic tutor skill" [1], suggesting that the well-known technique has been added to LLM tools independently by many people.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_questioning [1]: https://github.com/search?q=socratic+tutor+skill&type=reposi...
today at 7:43 AM
Yep - just looked at my projects in Claude, and my first "socratic tutor" was registered on 2nd of December 2024. I forget where I got the inspiration though (probably X)
today at 7:14 AM
Same with dialog-tuning in the first place. That you could manipulate the context of unicorn-text generators like GPT-2 in order to actually have something like a conversation with them, or that a model could generate "private thoughts" before answering, were ideas which weren't as self-evident as they seem now. But still ideas a lot of people had at the same time.
today at 8:53 AM
Yes, the comment was intended as a playfully hyperbolic nod to the lack of novelty and originality in the idea, but I guess the intended tone didn't carry through :)
today at 9:00 AM
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today at 6:57 AM
today at 7:19 AM
what am i missing, why does it have 434 forks and 6.3k starts? is it botted? what's the point
today at 7:58 AM
Pure markdown skills are trivially recreatable. I think the value of them is more the idea than the artifact.
today at 8:58 AM
I think a lot of people use 'fork' to bookmark a repo
today at 10:48 AM
I'd be curious to see whether learners can still solve similar problems on their own a week later
today at 11:22 AM
I want an AI that I can give a paper, and then sits with me to understand it, maybe even implement it (though this is the easy part for the LLM).
today at 11:27 AM
You should probably try [AlphaXiv](https://www.alphaxiv.org/), they are building what you want.
I use it as a better PDF reader for arxiv paper but they are going all in on AI teaching/explaining things.
today at 9:49 AM
Love this. There is so much value when using LLMs this way, it needs effort and consistency from the user but the results are really good.
A vanilla version of this is, at the end of a session, ask the model to generate a couple of "ultimate" questions to really flex your understanding. Obviously, the quality depends on the model but I've found it useful.
today at 10:38 AM
Has anyone tried ChatGPT's study mode? I thought it was supposed to be just like this, but I was underwhelmed when I tried it, and they ended up removing it. (It might be back now?)
I have the leaked prompt around here somewhere...
today at 12:41 PM
Copilot has a study and learn mode. It's ok.
today at 9:09 AM
I’ve been building a harness for just this all year, they’re great. One of the main use cases for LLMs I think is largely overlooked.
today at 12:53 PM
Good thing with skills being just markdown text you can use them in any harness. Just imported into my phone harness (I already had a Socratic tutor like skill), but this crispier.
today at 9:40 AM
Do you have something you could share, and can it be repurposed for use with kids?
today at 10:22 AM
Socratic tutor skill isn't new at all, why did this reach the front page
today at 8:09 AM
man people need to talk to people this is depressing
today at 10:17 AM
Do you have readily available access to professionals in every field you're curious about? I'm interested in learning more about electricity but don't know anyone who's certified.
today at 12:36 PM
I wish I could just go to any university and talk to professors and have a socratic discussion about many subjects. Unfortunately doesn't work that way in reality.
today at 9:08 AM
Trying it right now. it's pretty decent and it does sort of make my brain work. Pondering right now when the "bitter lesson" will make these skills useless.
today at 9:11 AM
"These skills" being making your brain work, or this Socratic tutor SKILL.md?
today at 10:22 AM
hahaha, I meant the skill.md from Jane Street. But I'm currently fighting for my brain every day now too!
today at 10:10 AM
First one, then the other.
today at 11:41 AM
I've tried something like this and ran into a problem which I'm not seeing a fix for. Generally, to really apply this method, you need to understand the person asking the question.
>Tell the user that you will start by asking a few questions, one at a time, to see what they already know.
This puts it into the session each time. Do this once and it seems to work. By the 5th time, you are getting tired of reconfirming your mastery. This ends up depending upon the user to have a pretty solid foundation of what they know and then use this skill to expand the boundary a bit, and even then the AI can end up making so many assumptions that a person has trouble following it along.
I was thinking some sort of concept mapping kept long term might help, but such a mapping can become really difficult to build. Which should be expected when we consider that teaching isn't just its own discipline, but has many sub-disciplines targeted to specific areas (even if some of it, like classroom management, doesn't apply to this scenario).
I made a few attempts at a knowledge tracking tool for personal use to track how much I knew Japanese beyond a simple JLPT level or similar with the plan to tie it into something like this, but it wasn't great. I could 'cheat' and just tap into my Wanikani API to see my progress, but that still skips so many other areas of Japanese, and even when WaniKani says something is burned, I really want AI to still use it until I truly internalize it like I do words in English. I suspect other areas of knowledge are similar.
today at 12:59 PM
Yes, lots of LLM Skills quickly turn into applications. The skill is the program and the LLM is the compute, and that leaves the harness to manage the state. I’ve found that these skills need explicit instructions on how to manage state across sessions.
In my work, this typically means an opinionated local folder structure and a dedicated /init skill that implements it. Immediately this means we have more than one skill so we’re talking about a plugin now.
Then I think about meta-state. Not just “what is on disk” but “where are we in this application’s multi-session lifecycle?” For Socratic tutoring, that means checking to see if we’ve completed an initial intake, then what skill levels the user has demonstrated, and finally what’s next on the menu.
For this specific skill, I’m surprised it doesn’t say anything about curriculum. It just assumes the model knows the topic and can improvise both a curriculum and credible assessments of progress in that curriculum. That can’t be true for all things people want to learn, so we need a /build-curriculum skill. And probably a /validate-curriculum skill for actual experts to use before launching a given curriculum.
Anyway, I’ve been thinking a lot about this kind of thing as I roll out skills to my firm.
today at 11:44 AM
This works really well.
A positive take: this works much better than the many projects on gh that did this before Jane Street. This would be evidence that creativity and execution still matter, even when the product is just an md file
A cynical take: network effects are everything. tens of projects doing the same thing and this only gains traction when an already popular org does it
today at 8:45 AM
I see a lot of this at my company too - everyone re-inventing the same ideas over and over. I wonder how much people actually adopt other teams' implementation of this. In my experience I'm bombarded with a thousand different iterations of these things that everyone wants to advertise as a sort of "Look at me! I'm so AI!" but I simply don't have time to evaluate every different persons variation on these things, I certainly don't have time to really thoroughly benchmark them, and from experience a lot what I needed a carefully tuned skill to achieve 6 months ago is trivial for a better tuned agent today. I'm literally getting to the point where even my own skills are beginning to bit-rot.
today at 11:34 AM
If it was this easy, educators would have written up sets of standard Socratic teaching prompts long ago. Like perhaps in the time of Socrates himself. Or the British empire or John Dewey etc. There is probably some great research in the field of Education on this approach.
today at 11:20 AM
LLMs should first learn how to write English for humans.
Right now what they produce reads like legalese, or patents.
I suspect this is because the AI labs are optimizing for agents talking to agents, rather than AI talking to humans (which is harder to optimize, and does not improve intelligence as fast).
today at 9:54 AM
Sensei, please teach me the ways to reach alpha just like you.
Jokes aside, pretty cool. This is just a skill, and it'd be easy to dismiss it. But I do want to become a better horse whisperer. Prompt engineering used to be mocked a lot, especially on HN, and skills really is just that but with a new branding.
I think Duolingo's days and the likes are counted, AI is just a great way to quickly get up to speed on a subject or a language.
today at 10:15 AM
Duolingo maybe or maybe not, but even having God himself at your beck and call behind a chat interface will not guarantee you learn a language. Every stage of language acquisition requires multimodal stimulation and long sustained effort that can't be shortcutted by having a smarter teacher.
today at 10:16 AM
> Sensei, please teach me the ways to reach alpha just like you
obligatory Bruce Lee - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QQiH2-bLOmQ
today at 6:55 AM
I assume this isn't going to cause the LLM to start jumping me with questions about the nature of piety or justice
today at 11:26 AM
I WANT TO SEE THIS COMMENT ON COMMENTS
today at 7:03 AM
This comes off as AI consultant slop from a year ago. I wonder who is in charge of AI at Jane Street.
My client just got done firing someone who thought filling the codebase up with files like this would be a good idea.
It would seem the AI revolution is happening at wildly different rates depending on where you are standing.
today at 11:46 AM
Ah yes, I recall all those times as an engineer where my managers kept insisting I communicate like Socrates to improve my work. Software is solved.
today at 8:35 AM
I think it's a great idea, but I'm somewhat anti-skill.
Every single skill I see just strikes me as a prompt. In every case it's easier for me to create a description of what is needed specific to the task. If I need a longstanding process I will discuss with the agent and create a document.
This is one of the most flexible tools ever made, and I frankly am not going to accept unnecessary systematization of how I use it.
today at 8:42 AM
> Every single skill I see just strikes me as a prompt
Both of which are just blocks of text being stomped into an LLM.
I've got a feeling that prompting as we're doing currently (huge blocks of text with very little structure), at least when looking for a deterministic result, will be looked back on as if we were living in the Stone Age. Not sure what the alternative will be, but I'm imagining something like a CI pipeline definition in YAML.
today at 9:15 AM
A skill is usually auto-invoked and this one here has a bunch of trigger phrases. I personally dislike that. For this one especially I'd prefer explicit invocation.
today at 1:01 PM
That is configurable in a good harness. (Or should be.) It's not intrinsic to the skill idea.
today at 9:51 AM
> If I need a longstanding process I will discuss with the agent and create a document.
Isn't this just what a skill is?
today at 8:42 AM
Nodding vigorously to that last comment. If I want to systematize something I put it in code. Natural language is not code.
today at 9:30 AM
This is honestly pretty damn good actually.
Running it with my local models it is a pretty helpful way to study up something where you already have some bases.
today at 7:01 AM
today at 7:30 AM
I dunno if you really need this. I asked AI to generate me a Lean tutorial with exercises and it did a really great job, one-shot with no skills. My 4th attempt to learn Lean and I'm actually making progress this time. (Mostly because you can say "I'm a bit stuck here, can you give me a hint" - it's really good at Lean even without access to the Lean compiler.)
Maybe it improves things a bit though. I might try it next time.
today at 9:38 AM
can i use this for learning DSA
today at 9:54 AM
At some point the context will degrade and the questions might not be useful.
today at 9:34 AM
One more interesting test I'd like to do with this skill is. "Is justified true belief knowledge?" and arrive at Gettier through Socratic questioning.
today at 8:09 AM
brainrot
today at 11:26 AM
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