yesterday at 10:02 PM
FYI, light-dark() in CSS is a thing now.
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/V...
yesterday at 10:09 PM
And `:prefers-color-scheme` has been supported by all major browsers for seven years.
yesterday at 10:25 PM
Windows 3 through windows 7 had pervasive support for dark mode as long as application developers didn't custom paint their user interfaces. Application developers started out almost all supporting system colors and gradually over the next 25 years or so started implementing their own custom-drawn interfaces, accelerated by embedded IE/mshtml views and then later even more by Electron. This concluded with practically zero interfaces supporting the system color scheme.
today at 5:08 AM
Maybe the apps with the windows classic interface. I remember it starting mainly around the XP days when alls started designing these super ugly (but trendy at the time) rounded corner and bubbly interfaces that were static in resolution and colour scheme.
today at 5:14 AM
Works best at 1024x768!
yesterday at 11:12 PM
Yeah but "dark mode" for Win3 through WinXP was primarily to support passive matrix LCDs, which required inverted color schemes to appear with enough contrast to read. That is why the built-in "high contrast" color schemes look so aggressively awful.
yesterday at 11:08 PM
Yeah, when dark mode became "a thing" my first reaction was "...didn't we have this already?"
I was a theme junkie back in Windows 98 times, but stopped bothering since it became increasingly clear that Microsoft was not really interested in supporting them after XP.
today at 12:17 AM
Custom painting isn't the only thing that broke it. You can customize the style (colors) of the native widgets to get a desired look but IIRC you could choose from system colors (follows the theme/mode automatically) or exact colors. Some applications used a mix of them which made the UI look awful if you switched away from whatever the default theme was.
yesterday at 10:15 PM
And broken in Chrome since the beginning:
https://issues.chromium.org/issues/366412383
yesterday at 10:26 PM
I wouldn't call this part of the situation a bug. I'm sure everyone has their own opinion about which is the "right" way to handle a mismatch of OS level preference and browser level theme though.
The underlying problem is Chrome exposes no (normal) setting to override the OS level setting at all, not necessarily that the preference shall always follow the browser's theme specifically.
yesterday at 10:47 PM
yesterday at 10:32 PM
This issue is related to appearance setting inside Chrome itself (which sets Chrome's appearance, not how it should work with websites AFAIK). The core feature of prefers-color-scheme (following the OS-level setting) is working as intended.
yesterday at 10:52 PM
It is not true that prefers-color-scheme should always follow the OS-level setting. The doc says "The method by which the user expresses their preference can vary. It might be a system-wide setting exposed by the Operating System, or a setting controlled by the user agent."[1]
So if the user sets dark mode in the browser, do they not explicitly express their preference for websites? How could they be more explicit about the setting?
[1]https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-5/#prefers-color-schem...
yesterday at 11:41 PM
I didn't meant that "only OS-level setting should be respected", what I meant is that Chrome's setting is how Chrome themes should look like, not for websites.
Chrome already has a setting to change a specific website's color-scheme, although it's only working when Developer Tools is visible (then with Cmd+Shift+P "Toggle CSS media feature prefers-color-scheme"), so CSS implementation actually follows respecting UA-level preference over OS-level setting.
But again, Chrome doesn't have a feature that lets users to choose which color-scheme they want to browse the web (so there is no bug, but it's a UX issue because their Appearance settings doesn't make it clear to the users what this setting changes) other than the setting they gave to developers. Honestly I would love to see all browsers have an option for how color-scheme settings should apply to websites.
today at 12:19 AM
Yes it's confusing for the end-user, as I said they should improve their UX in that setting page to make it clear what this setting changes.
However, your original comment was saying that prefers-color-scheme is bugged in Chrome is not true. It works as intended: it follows both UA-level and OS-level settings correctly.
The settings in Appearance tab is not a setting for preference when browsing the web. Many apps have a setting to choose if their app should change appearance when OS setting changed (or to override it), they could simply leave out this setting and let Chrome chrome (app ui) always follow the OS setting or always be in default light mode, instead they gave users to choose "how their Chrome browser will look like", not "how every website they visit should look like".
today at 12:04 AM
You can set the appearance mode (light, dark, device) under chrome://settings/appearance . If you change the mode, the settings page (which is a website) adopts that mode, so a user would naturally assume this is also the mode for displaying web content.
yesterday at 10:21 PM
So I guess it hasnât been supported anywhere in a sense.
Safari and Firefox are pretty small.
yesterday at 10:41 PM
It makes me so angry that they named the CSS function `light-dark` instead of leaving the door open to allowing generic user- or site-specified color schemes. I mean it was right there in all the other mechanisms around this feature, they just had to read and think about why these are structured the way they are, and why "light" and "dark" were always values and not keywords in all of these..:
- <meta name="color-scheme" content="light dark">
- :root { color-scheme: light dark }
- @media (prefers-color-scheme: dark) { }
- <picture><source media="(prefers-color-scheme: dark)">
Did they not look at the prior art and notice that "one of these things is not like the other?" All the other pieces of this puzzle, conceivably, could have one day had something like `:root { color-scheme: halloween }` or `@media (prefers-color-scheme: supercontrast)` but no, we're just going to cement `light-dark()` as the only two possible color schemes we'd ever want to switch between forever.
today at 1:23 AM
Color schemes (luminance modes) and color themes (aesthetic styles) are not the same thing. Halloween theme can have light and dark schemes.
Also, prefers-contrast media query exists, which can be used in combination with the luminance modes (color-scheme): halloween-light, halloween-dark, halloween-light-high-contrast, halloween-dark-high-contrast.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47832705
today at 1:01 AM
Iâm not sure what kind of function youâre asking for that would support arbitrary user-defined themes. With the if() function and/or @function declarations you could build pretty much any system you want for defining theme-specific values for arbitrary themes.
yesterday at 10:53 PM
Itâs always irked me that light and dark are given privileged positions in the namespace. Theyâre just themes (or schemes if you like), like all the other possible themes.
today at 5:00 AM
I'd argue that they are modes of themes, not themes themselves.
today at 1:18 AM
Web standards are discussed in the open aren't they? I'll see if I can find what reasoning lead to this.
today at 1:22 AM
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/7561 appears to be a place to start digging
yesterday at 10:13 PM
yesterday at 10:03 PM
I want the opposite. I suffer from astigmatism, which makes white on black hard to read. I wish Safari could turn dark mode websites into light mode websites.
today at 5:09 AM
Dark Reader extension can do that
yesterday at 11:18 PM
I have similar issue with dark mode applied to content - hurts my eyes. I prefer to have window chrome in dark, to make "fade away". The only application which allows me to have my cake and eat it is Firefox: I can run Windows in dark yet read web in light mode.
I wish Windows would steal this feature for the whole OS: I don't want Notepad to use dark for text, but per-app setting usually turns the whole app light.
today at 12:41 AM
Yeah I canât do dark mode websites because they leave an after image for some time after reading. So I made a Force Light Mode extension that just applies an inverse to any site that forces dark mode on me. Safari 27 now has some Siri extension builder, maybe it can build it for you.
yesterday at 11:25 PM
I have 20/20 but for some reason cannot handle dark mode except for two things, terminal and coding and I cannot do light mode for either of those.
But whether it is my os ui or my phone ui, I feel like I can't distinguish borders and boundaries in the UI as well as I can with light mode.
yesterday at 10:08 PM
I use dark mode for everything, so I'm pretty happy about this. Some sites were clearly designed to be light, and forcing dark on them could break the experience, but that's exactly what `color-scheme: light only` is for, and it's good that Safari respects it. Other than that it feels like a win-win to me: great for dark mode users, and for devs not much changes, you just add "light only" if you don't want your site to be affected.
yesterday at 10:21 PM
Everyone should checkout Dark Reader extension, it's been doing adaptive dark mode for many years, and it's customisable. It even does light mode too. Using it in Firefox on HN right now!
yesterday at 10:31 PM
Slows down loading of websites a lot though.
yesterday at 11:11 PM
A slowly loading website is preferable to a quick flashbang.
yesterday at 11:16 PM
I'm concerned that these extensions can "read and modify" everything. I can't use that for work.
yesterday at 10:33 PM
I just noticed that Dark Reader stopped working for me. Turns out I accidentally installed "Dark Mode", a potentially malicious clone that got blocked :/
yesterday at 10:37 PM
I like that on Chrome, and while it works on Safari, I prefer Noir there.
yesterday at 11:40 PM
AFAIK, its detectable by the web page though
yesterday at 11:47 PM
Dark Reader went political - that's an automatic "NO" from me
today at 1:55 AM
What do you mean?
today at 3:51 AM
They posted about the was in Ukraine being bad and their disappointment with the Belarusian governments participation in it. https://darkreader.org/blog/no-war/
today at 4:52 AM
I'm a little shocked and disappointed to find that's considered "going political". Sigh.
yesterday at 10:41 PM
Personally I'm excited for this on iOSâI find that reading boring stuff in dark mode at minimum brightness on my phone is easily the most effective way for me to fall asleep (contrary to the blue light/no phones in bed advice). With an OLED screen the amount of light emitted is so much lower than any alternative I've tried. For sites like HN (some threads on HN are pretty boring) that don't have a native dark mode, my solution has been setting up the "Accessibility Shortcut" feature to invert the colors on the screen. Three clicks on the lock button and the page inverts. It works okay, but it requires manual intervention for each site depending on whether it supports dark mode.
yesterday at 11:25 PM
I have been using a Safari extension called Noir on iPhone for years. Works great on HN and most sites. I have it set to a pure black for HN. Easy to disable per-site when it fails. It syncs to my phone's dark mode. I also read in bed as you've described, with Night Shift turned on and very low brightness. It's great.
yesterday at 10:02 PM
Am I still the only one who doesn't use dark mode? My astigmatism can't take it
yesterday at 11:13 PM
No. Itâs stupid. Thereâs a reason we donât write white text on black paper. Thereâs a reason the first Mac showing black text on a white background was such an improvement.
I donât get the point at all (and donât want to hear it, Iâve seen the arguments before).
Itâs nice itâs there for people who want it but it baffles me itâs constantly treated like the greatest thing ever.
today at 4:37 AM
> No. Itâs stupid. Thereâs a reason we donât write white text on black paper.
That being that black paper is more expensive than white and that we're stuck with historical precedence?
Reading white text on a black background is much, much easier for me, and the few times I've had the pleasure of doing the same with paper, I still found it to be better. I haven't tried longer texts, since nobody's publishing actual books with black paper, but I'm willing to bet it I'd feel the same about those.
This just reads to me the 'serifs are important because they make reading easier (when reading of paper)', which doesn't reflect my lived experience at all. The only reason these phenomena seem to exist are historical accident and people being used to them.
yesterday at 11:28 PM
> Thereâs a reason we donât write white text on black paper.
Because wood is bright and you canât really print white ink on a black paper?
There might be a usability advantage but using black ink on white paper doesnât really prove that, thatâs just the easier option of the two possible choices.
today at 4:23 AM
Itâs easier, sure. Especially at first. But weâve had paper for a while now. Different colors of ink too. If light text on dark background was superior, we would be using it. And could have for hundreds of years for anything considered important.
today at 12:42 AM
> Thereâs a reason the first Mac showing black text on a white background was such an improvement
Apple soon started offering a dark mode as an accessibility feature https://kalleboo.com/linked/mac_closeview_control_panel.png
today at 12:58 AM
Thatâs an accessibility feature.
It was not an intended way to use things all the time for a large chunk of the user population.
Not the same.
today at 1:06 AM
Yeah, just wait until you are not the target market.
yesterday at 11:45 PM
I use light mode in the day when itâs bright, and dark mode at night when itâs dark. Neither mode is âbetterâ for me, but two things are true for me:
- Dark mode is harder to read when itâs bright out
- Light mode is blindingly bright when Iâm in a dark room (and turning the brightness sufficiently low makes everything look washed out.)
My devices change from light mode to dark mode at sunset and itâs basically ideal.
Also itâs nice to just have less artificial light as the sun sets, which makes falling asleep naturally a bit easier.
today at 4:14 AM
I didnât used to mind âlight modeâ, but then flat design took over and the midtones and grays that often composed light mode were replaced by huge swaths of stark white and near-white grays which is blinding at normal display brightness and then too low contrast to work well with low display brightness. After a while of that I started to enable dark mode whenever a platform made it available.
If/when flat design goes the way of the dodo and light themes are designed sanely once again Iâll pick them back up.
yesterday at 10:19 PM
I find dark mode is better for astigmatism, personally. It also isn't hellish if you have floaters and migraines, unlike light mode.
The preference, either way, is an important accessibility feature.
yesterday at 10:24 PM
No, youâre not the only one, I canât read dark mode, itâs all blurry, makes me squint and gives me a headache. Light colors all day long. Light mode is not a mode - itâs the default.
yesterday at 10:42 PM
No, After a few minutes of dark mode, I get essentially zebra stripe like migraines.
yesterday at 10:08 PM
For me I cannot deal with dark mode in bright environments, but equally it's fairly hard (though less hard) when using light mode in dark environments. It's why Dark Reader has been such a huge quality of life improvement for me.
today at 1:21 AM
That's why every site should respect the user's light/dark preference when possible. Dark mode vs light mode is very divisive
today at 2:16 AM
I have the opposite issue. That's why I have my system theme set to dark, and likely you to light, and this has existed for years:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/A...
It's 2026, how does every single website, especially this one, not support this?
yesterday at 10:33 PM
I don't use it either, and find most website dark modes really difficult to read. The text blurs together or worse, it gets "burned in" to my vision briefly (not sure what that phenomenon is called). I especially dislike the ones that are pitch black instead of the cool grey/dark grey. I was hoping this "Adaptive Dark Mode" announcement was going to adaptively do away with the pitch black dark modes that make it impossible for me to read a website by adapting them to any other color scheme. =P
yesterday at 10:02 PM
No.
yesterday at 10:03 PM
Is your astigmatism uncorrectable?
yesterday at 10:07 PM
Even if it were, itâs easier and more reasonable to fix your app to work with your users, than fixing your users to work with your app.
yesterday at 11:45 PM
Everyone deserves configurable and hackable apps, which is the only real way to work towards universal accessibility.
I can't personally support light modes in my own software because I can't use/test them, but I'd still add an untested one and fix bug reports about it.
I'm just curious about what people mean when they talk about astigmatism in this context, because the term is usually thrown around without qualifications (plain "astigmatism" as opposed to "irregular astigmatism" or "uncorrectable astigmatism"). So I'm curious about the astigmatism of people for whom dark mode on glowing devices is a problem. Is it typically extremely severe? Is it typically uncorrectable? Is it that people's glasses or contacts are often subtly wrong/outdated? Are many astigmatics not myopic or presbyopic enough to wear glasses all the time anyway? Astigmatism is a broad category and I'm curious about the specific impairments people who avoid dark mode have, in part because I have astigmatism and nonetheless prefer (require, really) dark mode because of other vision problems.
today at 4:14 AM
My astigmatism is very regular, very mild, correctable, and corrected. Dark mode is still awful for me. Gives me visual snow side effects after too long and generally just makes the astigmatism symptoms worse.
Itâd be great if Apple could try this hard in the iOS messages app where there the keyboard is now only dark mode when a background is set.
yesterday at 10:13 PM
Not them, but my left eye isn't fully correctable. The average dark mode site looks like I'm driving the Las Vegas strip in the rain.
yesterday at 10:21 PM
Hacker News itself is a prime example of a website that doesnât support dark mode, but could do so trivially (and, IMO, would look so much better if it did!)
yesterday at 10:49 PM
My HN is in dark mode, though the honors for that accomplishment go to the duckduck browser. Been reading HN on dark mode a while now (light mode burns me eyes, only way to use HN for me now is with the Duck)
P.S. the Duck browser literally has a universal dark mode setting, I don't recall a site it wasn't able to dark-force darkify for me (language is fun)
yesterday at 10:53 PM
There is no downside to having prefers-color-scheme media query set up, even for HN. Too bad still roughly 1 in 4 popular websites support it.
yesterday at 11:46 PM
no, choosing light/dark mode should be manual
today at 12:08 AM
Per website...? Why would anyone want that instead of just using the system-wide preference? Many sites/apps have an option of system/light/dark.
today at 2:18 AM
For me, most dark mode styles are awful (jet black background bright white text). I'd rather have per website toggle so I can apply my own styling when the site's styles suck.
today at 5:10 AM
But you can have both? Automatically switching between light and dark mode based on system preferences is handled by CSS, which you can override with your own styling.
today at 12:10 AM
Hard disagree here. Follow my system default.
today at 1:00 AM
Iam a both kind of guy.
today at 12:29 AM
No, it should follow system defaults with an option for a manual override. People like you are the reason the internet is broken.
today at 1:22 AM
The only chrome extension I have is to make hackernews support dark mode. Love having it
I do appreciate how minimalist hackernews tries to be, but I think respecting the operating system's theme can be considered very minimalist
yesterday at 10:42 PM
there are a lot of design choices which Hacker News does not support ;)
today at 12:58 AM
I use Stylus to apply a dark theme to HN, and much prefer it. https://i.imgur.com/USbXXEK.png
today at 1:03 AM
People should stop using Imgur. 99% of the time when I click an Imgur link, I get a 403 Imgur is temporarily over capacity. Please try again later. I highly doubt that they are, and they are just blocking VPNs.
today at 1:13 AM
If you've got a better suggestion, I'm open to it. I generally just want a throwaway place to host an image publicly for a specific purpose.
today at 1:24 AM
Not sure if you would like my dark mode modifications to HN, but here are my CSS[1] and JS[2] modifications.
Javascript: https://pastebin.com/50EUfktL CSS: https://pastebin.com/nzEhxxBY
today at 4:01 AM
This feature works well on Hacker News, just trying it on the beta.
today at 12:07 AM
Dark mode and some small improvements for mobile usage would be amazing and don't seem at all hard. It's pretty amazing HN hasn't implemented them.
today at 12:08 AM
HN works just fine on mobile. I am posting from a GrapheneOS phone. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
today at 12:18 AM
I disagree. It's pretty terrible. I use hackerweb.app on mobile and it's much better however it doesn't support posting. Thus I have to torment myself with the regular website to post a comment such as this.
today at 12:12 AM
I misclicked "hide" on quite a few articles when I meant to read the comments
today at 12:18 AM
If anyone here is open to using the Stylus extension, I've re-shared a dark theme for Hacker News recently and it's been lovely. [0]
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49686639
today at 12:28 AM
I hate that folks recommend random extensions. Browsers should include style/css editors (with the ability to save and reload styles later) for accessibility. Since we don't have that, uBlock Origin does a lot of heavy lifting, and can add a dark mode to HN and other sites.
I'd share my ruleset, however, I am missing one. Before I switched PCs (motherboard caught fire) I had one that made everything dark mode, didn't dim the text, and buttons/text inputs/other inputs were also properly inverted. I had to make it myself because googling Hacker News dark mode always led to the same broken themes. I forgot to back it up. Adding dark mode doesn't need a bunch of extensions, and while I'm sure the "stylus" extension is probably useful (I haven't used it, sounds like a CSS override extension), UBO does CSS and JS.
Just my thoughts. Don't mind me.
today at 1:21 AM
Indeed, I just figured I'd share the full setup. IIRC, Stylus was derived from "Stylish", which was a hugely popular CSS override extension that became spyware around 2016 and was taken down in 2018, and now Stylus (and others of course) fill the gap. It would be very nice to have this integrated into the browser, I agree.
today at 1:21 AM
Opera had this in 2003, but sadly none of the major browsers copied it.
today at 12:55 AM
I still miss Omniweb, a browser with user defined stylesheets, per site settings, and workspaces⌠so many good things. Free browsers killed it off.
today at 12:56 AM
No thanks. When you are my age you will understand.
I have no idea why all the fucking vibed websites that swank around the web these days are unable to do a simple thing:
* Have one or more "themes" with dark and light variants
* Query the browser for a preference of light or dark and offer the default theme with the probed variant.
It's 2026 FFS. Why on earth is this even being discussed as an issue? We have all these cool vibed efforts that can't even be bothered with simple basics.
today at 1:11 AM
I use a chrome plugin precisely for this and I can confirm - my eyes hurt less
yesterday at 11:01 PM
Theyâre now formally interested in doing one but, I imagine, not very urgently relative to flag reasons and other stuff.
today at 12:40 AM
https://hcker.news was originally made so i didnt solar flash my kid in bed while they were sleeping
it now has many dark themes, bloomberg is my favorite.
today at 12:51 AM
It's great!
Where are the themes? (I might be missing on mobile)
today at 12:52 AM
my bad, upper right corner half moon icon!
today at 12:56 AM
Gotcha I was looking for a Bloomberg terminal like theme, whoops
today at 1:02 AM
Whoops is on me, I misunderstood your question. That theme is there, you have to long press the theme button. Just realized how unintuitive it is, gonna move it to the settings.
yesterday at 11:30 PM
I got neurological lyme disease a few years ago. Anything with a white background was like a VGA cable being half plugged in.
The fact that this website wasnât capable of dark mode made me create a CSS overlay on desktop.
I am back to somewhat normal now with my eyes, but I feel really bad for anyone in the same position.
I know that the current exact HN is magic, but come on. There is CSS to detect the systemâs theme. There is no need to create a button or anything.
yesterday at 10:22 PM
Please no. Dark mode is extremely difficult to read for me.
yesterday at 10:25 PM
Are you supposing they would they force it on for you? Or does your dislike of it mean nobody else should have the option?
yesterday at 11:10 PM
This is, in fact, what drives a lot of politics. "I don't like X therefore nobody may have X."
yesterday at 11:58 PM
Bean Soup Theory: https://www.merriam-webster.com/slang/bean-soup-theory
yesterday at 10:26 PM
Thatâs why itâs a mode :-)
yesterday at 10:41 PM
I'd prefer dark mode because then I notice my eye floaters much less when reading.
yesterday at 10:34 PM
yesterday at 11:21 PM
Ironically this comment is now almost impossible to read.
yesterday at 9:58 PM
Does it go the other way? What if I want light mode on a website that looks dark
yesterday at 10:08 PM
You're out of luck if, like me, you have a problem with astigmatic halation. All the cool kids use dark mode.
iOS since 26 has been presenting parts of the system in dark mode despite having the device set to light only. One of the âbestâ is that launcher groups switch to dark background, but they forgot to switch the text colour, so app names are unreadable. I had hoped iOS 27 would fix it, but no, so I'm switching to Android.
today at 4:18 AM
Yeah, same here. Insanely annoying to have your own phone get made less accessible for you.
yesterday at 9:59 PM
This is a good thing.
I added dark mode to my blog a while ago and it was a little trying to do properly.
You can implement a half-assed dark mode yourself by adding the following css.
@media(prefers-color-scheme: dark) {
body {
filter: invert();
}
}
yesterday at 10:04 PM
filter: invert() hue-rotate(180deg)
today at 12:00 AM
Yep! Thatâs what is my dark mode userscript too. Reference for anyone interested in more details. https://monochrome.sutic.nu/2024/02/25/hue-preserving-invert...
yesterday at 11:42 PM
Please do not use invert; it messes up subpixel rendering, making text ugly and harder to read.
yesterday at 10:04 PM
The opt outs mentioned in the article, like
color-scheme: light dark;
For icons, ideally theyâd be SVGs controlled by currentColor, but that may not be feasible or convenient depending on your setup.
yesterday at 11:19 PM
As a user, I'm really excited about this. There are still so many websites that don't support dark mode.
Having built websites myself, I know how much attention it takes to make sure every page and component looks good in both light and dark mode.
It's not perfect yet. Even in the second demo, you can see that the chart remains white, creating a stark contrast with the rest of the page. But it's a great step toward making dark mode work across the web without requiring every developer to implement it themselves.
today at 12:07 AM
Why are people now so obsessed with dark modes? 20 years ago it wasn't a thing at all and computers were just as usable, if not more in some regards. If you wanted a "dark mode" you switched to a tty.
today at 12:27 AM
Not true. Also 20 years ago we were still using 14â CRTs.
yesterday at 11:04 PM
> When transforming text color, Adaptive Dark Mode aims for sufficient contrast as defined by the WCAG 4.5:1 contrast ratio.
The WCAG 2 contrast checker is known to be inaccurate, specifically for light on dark color combinations (i.e. dark mode) meaning 4.5:1 isn't always going to be easy to read so it's surprising they're not at least using a higher ratio. The APCA contrast checker (was being considered for WCAG 3) is more accurate at measuring readable contrast levels and the docs explain the problems with WCAG 2 more:
https://git.apcacontrast.com/documentation/APCAeasyIntro.htm...
yesterday at 9:51 PM
I was looking through 'Dark Mode' browser plugins for viewing websites last week, and the options aren't great. The 'Dark Reader' plugin that's everywhere sends a lot of silent web requests in the background that seems strange given its mostly just CSS tweaks.
yesterday at 10:11 PM
I'd be curious to know more about this. Dark Reader, at least on Firefox, is a recommended addon, which means it gets additional scrutiny by Mozilla. I do agree though that if it does additional web requests, it seems fishy. Do you have any details on where these requests go to or how you found them?
yesterday at 10:34 PM
You can inspect requests yourself by either:
- Checking "Enable remote debugging" and "Enable chrome and add-on debugging toolboxes" in devtools settings, opening Browser Toolbox (Ctrl+Shift+I), and looking at the "Network" tab
or
- Enable add-on debugging and inspect the addon from `about:debugging`
today at 1:02 AM
Correction: C+A+S+I
yesterday at 10:01 PM
I use stylus on firefox, you can search for styles or write them yourself. I often write dark mode for websites, I'm using a dark mode for hn right now. Also "large mode", it's ridiculous having websites on a 32" limited to 900 px
yesterday at 9:54 PM
Bad: itâs tracking you
Worse: itâs attacking you
Worst: itâs attacking someone else as you
yesterday at 10:38 PM
PSA: Noir is a safari extension that does exactly this and itâs fantastic. Miles better than Dark Reader on performance and refinement. Costs a few bucks but itâs one time and totally worth it.
today at 12:11 AM
>cost a few bucks
Sounds like the Noir dev is going to be the next victim of Apple's Sherlocking.
yesterday at 11:07 PM
Does this also address the momentary flash of blinding white, often when pages transition/fail to render
yesterday at 10:57 PM
yesterday at 10:22 PM
Really happy to see this. Users begged me to add dark mode to my sites for years and it's been nothing but a pain to support since adding it. If other browsers pick up something similar, I look forward to the day I can finally remove "manual" dark mode support and just leave it up to the browser.
yesterday at 10:28 PM
> I look forward to the day I can finally remove "manual" dark mode support and just leave it up to the browser.
Today it is!
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/V...
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/A...
yesterday at 10:33 PM
I guess if you truly donât care about it sure, this is probably going to be an improvement, but if you are willing to invest even a bit of effort I strongly think youâd want to decide how your website looks like in dark mode.
yesterday at 10:55 PM
I'd estimate I've probably spent 100+ hours testing and fixing dark mode issues over the past 5-10 years. Investing "a little bit of effort" is how I got myself into the trap of doubling+ UI QA time to make sure everything _also_ looks good in dark mode (and also in dark mode across a matrix of other configurations) every time I want to ship anything new to users.
I know some people care about dark mode (and that's why I bit the bullet to add it), but I'd honestly much rather have spent all that time working on actual features.
today at 12:44 AM
This is awesome because I like reasonable solutions that let me be lazy.
I'm sure there are designers that love dealing with two themes, and will do beautiful work within each theme.
But I'm really fine with letting the computer figure it out. CRM, back office tools, admin dashboards... many clients are approving one design and dark mode is an afterthought. Why can't the computer just... do it for me, and do a better than passable job at that.
today at 12:49 AM
Modern CSS has some simpler mechanisms to deal with the light/dark dichotomy now. I translated a blog to support dark mode recently and it wasn't that difficult. The two sticking points were <code> and picking foreground colors that didn't blend in, and the github icon.
The other was Github's icon. But `filter: invert(1)` does a pretty decent job of handling that as long as the icons are black and white.
yesterday at 9:58 PM
Finally a fix for HN
yesterday at 10:10 PM
Please! I don't use Safari so this won't help me, but switching back to HN from other mostly dark themed sites hurts my eyes :(
yesterday at 10:52 PM
Chrome also has a functional adaptive dark mode (no extension required!), but it is hidden behind an experimental flag `enable-force-dark` as an origin trial on desktop. I am surprised that the Chrome team have not surfaced this to users earlier (outside of Android Chrome, where it is available as a 'Dark Mode' toggle).
To try it, go to chrome://flags and search for Dark Mode, then enable Auto Dark Mode for Web Contents.
Alternatively, you can toggle it on using the Chrome DevTools Rendering tab, as "Enable automatic dark mode"
yesterday at 10:54 PM
Some pages break badly... like google docs and some QR codes
today at 1:32 AM
Whatâs the relationship for Safari and Safari Tech Preview.
Because correct me if Iâm wrong, neither of these features were in the Tech Preview.
And numerous features have been in Tech Preview that have never made it into mainline Safari.
today at 1:50 AM
Safari Technology Preview is primarily for testing the latest WebKit features, rather than previewing every upcoming Safari feature.
Safari Beta is generally what you'd want to use to test features coming to the next Safari release.
And yes, features appearing in Technology Preview aren't necessarily guaranteed to ship in Safari.
today at 4:09 AM
Why canât HN provide a dark mode?
yesterday at 10:27 PM
Finally..
In dark mode, any windows that aren't dark can be huge eyesores.
I recently made a menu bar utility to enable per-window color invert for this reason: https://github.com/pazimzadeh/WindowInvert/
It helps for apps that don't have dark mode yet (Pages, etc) and even some apps that do (Preview has a dark mode, but it doesn't work on old PDF's).
yesterday at 10:30 PM
I just wish all websites supported reader mode.
yesterday at 9:56 PM
I know it's always been this way, but it's weird to me that Apple uses the WebKit blog for Safari product announcements.
yesterday at 10:58 PM
Itâs not. The feature is implemented deep within WebKit so it makes sense to be on this blog.
> Itâs precisely because Adaptive Dark Mode is happening deep within the WebKit browser engine that we are able to find creative ways to solve the most complex challenges, apply the transformations with great speed and power efficiency
today at 12:53 AM
This is great.
I use the brave beta appearance option "Dark Mode" and every now and then a site is almost unreadable.
today at 3:26 AM
Really exciting! Now do apps.
yesterday at 11:13 PM
A pet peeve of mine is websites thinking oh you prefer dark mode so letâs make the background pure black. I cannot take it because the contrast is too much: #fff on #000 is way more uncomfortable than #000 on #fff for me. There are certain developers who continue to think that dark mode is for conserving battery life with an OLED screen so pure black is preferable. I hate that so much that I have turned off dark mode globally. If websites canât be bothered to implement an actually nice dark theme like Solarized Dark, Iâd rather prefer the light mode.
Besides Solarized Dark, GitHubâs Soft Dark theme is quite well done, but unfortunately itâs not the default for a logged-out user with dark mode. So with dark mode I need to log in to GitHub to get acceptable colors.
Now that I think about it, I need a feature to limit the darkness of colors anywhere on the page, background or text except images. Remap #000 to #222 and #fff to #ddd.
yesterday at 11:36 PM
This looks awesome! I especially like that its not detectectable by the page for privacy! I want this in firefox.
today at 12:07 AM
They say it canât be detected but give it time and someone will figure out some signal that gives it away.
yesterday at 9:59 PM
I fear this will lead to a lot of broken websites. That seems to be the case with a lot of the browser plugins that provide the same functionality.
yesterday at 10:07 PM
1. It's opt-in. The user is choosing the occasional broken site over light themes.
2. The site can always provide their own dark theme if the automatic one is broken.
yesterday at 10:02 PM
There's a mode like this in an Android Chrome fork called Cromite that works surprisingly well. Most of the other options do suck though.
today at 1:46 AM
Oh man! Dark reader's getting Sherlocked now!
yesterday at 11:37 PM
I wonder when Apple will separate Safari update from iOS update. They have done this for the MacOS.
yesterday at 11:40 PM
I wonder when they will separate other browsers on iOS from clusterfxxk Safari is
yesterday at 10:05 PM
If this ends up working anything like the Gmail Dark Mode implementations on iOS and Android that have drove developers insane and users mad, then I expect both parties to become upset. It is easy to view this as a win for users, but the moment this doesn't work well in various scenarios, the vocal minority will punish the developers of the web as if they did something wrong here, and everyone loses.
Here is to hoping that is not the case, and they did a good job with the implementation in Safari, but I have my suspicions.
yesterday at 10:07 PM
>will punish the developers of the web as if they did something wrong here
Yes, developers can solve this by simply implementing dark mode.
yesterday at 10:09 PM
Your imagination for what can go wrong seems limited in my eyes. I've been in the trenches where a specification was not followed, or was wrong from the beginning. That can be the case here.
today at 12:50 AM
Can we get apple to enforce consistent 'back' behavior in iOS next?
I just switched after being an Android user since the dawn of the smartphone era. There are some improvements over Android so I'll give them credit but holy hell is navigation just a complete mess. Every app seems to behave differently, and even within the same app you'll see inconsistencies.
Would it really be that hard to provide a universal back gesture that works across apps like Android has? It makes the phone so clunkly and slow.
yesterday at 10:01 PM
I've always wanted to use Safari as my default browser. I just need them to fix the disappearing favicons in the sidebar tabs. Apple: please fix.
yesterday at 9:47 PM
⢠As a user: great
⢠As a web developer: what a nightmare, now your website will look different to different people, as if having to support multiple browser engines and multiple screen rations, and multiple platforms, etc. was not a big pile of problems already.
⢠As someone who doesnât like dark-mode due to eye strain: good-good⌠for people who like it ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
yesterday at 10:14 PM
> what a nightmare, now your website will look different to different people
That's what the web has always been. People don't all have the same display types, the same subpixel layouts, the same display sizes, the same DPIs, the same fonts, the same zoom levels... People use reader modes, global restyling extensions, per-site custom style sheets, full screen magnifiers, bounded/partial magnifiers, screen readers, OS high-contrast modes... the web has never been a fixed canvas that you get to paint on and then hand to users.
yesterday at 9:53 PM
I like to think of it as a gentle encouragement to finally implement prefers-color-scheme in web applications.
(I say this as a designer who has spent countless hours on dark-mode palettes as well as someone who has the automatic circadian toggle enabled everywhere.)
yesterday at 9:53 PM
disagree. the web specifically is built as a dynamic medium for consumption. The fluid nature is the point. Yes, it is harder for developers to force a consistent experience, but as a professional web dev, we should not treat the web as a fixed medium.
yesterday at 9:56 PM
As long as a client needs to approve a layout, that is not happening
yesterday at 10:00 PM
Sounds like a problem with the client.
yesterday at 10:04 PM
A web agency is not going to start questioning the brand book of a 100x larger client.
yesterday at 11:03 PM
I'm not going to publically question my boss doing stupid shit, but that doesn't make him not stupid.
yesterday at 9:52 PM
Re: web developer
> The HTML <meta name="color-scheme" content="light only"> tag lets browsers know that 1) this page supports light mode and 2) should only be displayed in light mode.
yesterday at 10:17 PM
As a web developer, all you have to do is support `:prefers-color-scheme`.
yesterday at 9:53 PM
Even as a developer I'm all for it, go even harder. We may eventually reach the promised land where the user agent defines so much of the final appearance things like "pixel perfect design" or beating standard controls into within an inch of their lives to fit some design system are a thing of the past.
yesterday at 10:08 PM
Wait until you learn I can change the font size and even override the site CSS on my own machine!
today at 1:14 AM
Who cares if you can? I am referring to non-tech-savvy web users who barely know what YouTube is: your parents, grandparents, accountant, or city firefighters. There are literally millions of people in this planet who donât even know what HTML is. The commenters above appear to be criticizing my remark as if I was mistaken. Software developers often lack imagination when it comes to real-world problems.
yesterday at 10:17 PM
Does this also allow me to lighten sites that default to extremely hard to read dark mode?
I wish the crusade to make everything dark would end.
So do others. https://xkcd.com/3227/
yesterday at 9:51 PM
> Safari prevents websites from detecting when Adaptive Dark Mode has been applied. JavaScript that queries CSS colors will get the original authored colors, not the transformed ones. Any images drawn into canvas render in their original form.
So⌠the browser is now intentionally lying now. Ainât that great.
yesterday at 9:56 PM
Browsers already intentionally lie all the time, and have had to for years, because fingerprinting and tracking by various ad networks and bad actors has been rampant.
yesterday at 9:55 PM
This is more or less unavoidable to avoid breaking poorly-architected front-ends that rely on styling to handle logic.
yesterday at 9:58 PM
Browsers lie all the time. Browsers also prevent sites from getting the color of a link because visited links can be shown in a different color and this can be used by the site to tell if a user has ever visited a link.
Donât you love it when browsers lie to websites to enhance the userâs privacy.
yesterday at 9:57 PM
It's the user's agent
yesterday at 9:56 PM
One less thing to fingerprint.
yesterday at 9:54 PM
> So⌠the browser is now intentionally lying now. Ainât that great.
To the server. I'm 100% behind this. The unholy amount of control websites have over our web browser should go down, not up.
yesterday at 9:57 PM
> To the server. I'm 100% behind this. The unholy amount of control websites have over our web browser should go down, not up.
Especially when so many lack reasonable ADA compliance.
yesterday at 10:41 PM
Hah, I just paid for an addon to do this, Noir. Sure you could do it for free but it's a nice experience. Oh well, no harm done.
yesterday at 10:25 PM
This is much better than the absolute embarrassment Mozilla tried with alternate page styles. I swear no one at Mozilla ever tested out the feature considering the style you select does not get persisted so the next time you navigate it reverts back to the original style.
Meanwhile this features is actually tired to a persisted device setting that doesn't get reset every time you go to a new page.
yesterday at 10:10 PM
Do they plan to introduce compliance with PWAs any time this decade?
yesterday at 9:52 PM
Thank you, whoever led this!
yesterday at 9:55 PM
On the contrary, screw you whoever led it. Who even wants authored styles nowadays.
yesterday at 10:03 PM
"Authored"? It just applies a set of rules to the existing stylesheet. It's not like they're customizing it for different websites.
yesterday at 11:27 PM
It was a rhetorical question, hence no question mark.
yesterday at 10:04 PM
take the wikipedia, no more flashbangs for me HA!
yesterday at 10:09 PM
Wikipedia already supports dark mode as a feature of the default Vector 2022 skin.[0]
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dark_mode
yesterday at 11:04 PM
I guess this time suffering was really a choice :(
yesterday at 11:02 PM
Wikipedia allows you to write any custom CSS. In 2012/2013 when Facebook IPOâed and was the cool thing I made a user CSS that made Wikipedia look like Facebook.
yesterday at 10:12 PM
damn
yesterday at 10:09 PM
"Websites aren't making dark mode versions! WE'LL DO IT FOR THEM!"
This has to be the result of some passion project by yet another whacko dark mode fanatic (you know who you are). Non-standard, assuredly buggy, and basically a maintenance nightmare. Good luck with that craziness.
Can we have another setting which turns dark websites into actually readable light designs for adults?
yesterday at 10:14 PM
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yesterday at 10:43 PM
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yesterday at 9:53 PM
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yesterday at 9:58 PM
Is this a headline form the year 2015?
yesterday at 11:01 PM
For anyone using Zen browser, you can accomplish this on a site by site basis using the newer "Boosts" feature available via the extensions button in the url bar
Personally, I find it close to perfect for Gmail and HN, among others
yesterday at 11:10 PM
It is truly arrogant of Apple to change a websites presentation, graphics, logos, and then tell website authors if you want to opt out just do XYZ.
But this Apple arrogance is also why they are Apple. And why you are using a software keyboard and a phone shaped like a dark mirror.
yesterday at 11:44 PM
Its truly arrogant of website authors to think they should have the final say on how users view the site on their browser.
yesterday at 10:09 PM
This is surely going to be optional, so it won't impact me in the slightest, but it is a pet peeve of mine when browsers (or browser extensions, looking at you 1Password) alter the UI of websites away from how they were originally designed without explicit instruction to do so.
This sounds like it meets that threshold, it will just surely be a hit-or-miss mess. Hopefully if it makes it to iOS it will drive more site owners to adapt to `prefers-color-scheme`.
yesterday at 10:15 PM
Browsers are user-agents, not website-agents. By way of example, if a website shows ads or does tracking, I will absolutely alter it to my liking.
yesterday at 10:32 PM
I and my browser are allowed to do whatever I want with the data that is posted on the public internet.
today at 12:45 AM
I'm very in favor of users being able to do whatever they want with websites - I'm all for it. I just don't like extensions making changes without a clean way to disable it, like in 1P