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“I just chose words carefully”

406 points - yesterday at 10:49 PM

Source
  • sho_hn

    yesterday at 11:08 PM

    There's a similar anecdote Gillian Anderson recently revealed during an interview on the X-Files, saying Chris Carter had an OCD-like habit to write dialog to conform to certain text layout preferences (no widows[1]) in the script, which made for the show's distinctive style of dialog cadence.

    1 = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widows_and_orphans

      • consumer451

        yesterday at 11:40 PM

        Here is the interview where she mentions it, with the correct timestamp, backed-up just enough to give it context.

        https://youtu.be/d3bCel607lQ?t=1162

          • cpeterso

            today at 2:42 AM

            “Chris told me I mean that there was a particular way that we used to speak in the show that it that wasn't a normal rhythm and syntax. It was slightly backwards. which felt like it was almost part of the cryptic aspect of the series.

            “And it wasn't until we were working on this, I think, the second feature. I was sitting in a parked vehicle waiting to shoot and our showrunner and creator Chris Carter came up to me who was directing the feature and he said he looked at my sides where my lines were and he said, "Look, no widows." And I said, "What what are you talking about?" He said, "No, no widows on the paragraphs that each character has." the word went all the way to the end with the period. So, you didn't like end halfway through that line. So, it was a perfect So, it was a perfect rectangle.

            “So, the dialogue was designed visually. For nine years. [laughter] Wow. So, you're struggling. You're struggling with his OCD.

              • rectang

                today at 3:06 AM

                Forming every paragraph of dialog into perfect rectangles is way more extreme than just avoiding "widows". The usual term for this is "full justification" and typographically when it's done it's typically through word spacing and letter spacing. Full justification in monospace through word choice (which is what the Ares Luna article is about) is bonkers, but I can't see that happening for TV dialog.

                I've sometimes heard "orphan" used to represent a single word left alone on its own line at the end of a paragraph, but the terms are often confused and Carter could have used "widow" in that sense.

                I'm curious to see what the hard-copy scripts actually looked like. The soft copies I've seen aren't particularly idiosyncratic but maybe they've been normied: https://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/the-x-files_production.h...

                  • wombatpm

                    today at 4:00 AM

                    Widows are when the final line of a paragraph starts the next page. Orphans are when the first line of a paragraph ends a page.

        • diurnalist

          today at 12:04 AM

          I also saw that interview, then out of curiosity I tried to find any evidence of this. There are some fan sites with ostensibly original X-Files scripts out there[1]. Looking through some written by Carter[2], I wonder if this is apocryphal, or if he was messing with her a bit.

          [1]: https://www.boggsfiles.com/x-files-scripts-by-season/season-... [2]: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BQbfRmeq3FsajjYcEuqDHv0kf2B...

            • consumer451

              today at 12:39 AM

              Wow, thanks for doing this digging. In the interview Gillian recounts Chris Carter saying "Look, no widows."

              Maybe this was not the rule, but something that he had always strived for, so he felt the need to call it out as something cool?

          • rectang

            today at 2:43 AM

            "No widows" on its own isn't enough to create a distinctive dialog cadence.

            "Widows" (alone at the top) and "orphans" (alone at the bottom) are single lines cut off from the rest of a paragraph by a column/page break. The solution is generally just to fiddle with column/page breaks, which is purely typographical.

            I'm sure that there's a distinct identity to X-Files dialog; it's just not due to this quirk.

            I can totally see a fellow typography geek bragging about this to someone and them being horrified haha.

            ETA: I speculate that Carter was avoiding "widows" to be considerate to the actors by not splitting lines across page turns.

            • fasterik

              today at 1:06 AM

              I'm also reminded of how David Milch supposedly wrote a lot of Deadwood in iambic pentameter. I only learned about this after seeing the show, but I did pick up the "Shakespearean" feel of some of the dialogue. Constraints often force creativity.

              • xerox13ster

                yesterday at 11:19 PM

                I just realized I have nearly always avoided widows and orphans because it felt bad to write that way.

                I wonder if I was ever taught to write this way and forgot, but I feel like I just learned the terms for the first time.

                • thinkafter

                  today at 3:28 AM

                  Meanwhile Xfiles has a montage on YouTube of all the times the boom mic crept into the shot.

                  So I can’t super accept that these are geniuses - it was cheap TV.

                  In hindsight sure, whole cult following etc. but doesn’t mean it is well designed or even thought out.

              • _jackdk_

                yesterday at 11:43 PM

                I wonder if at any point during writing, the heroic author of that Super Metroid guide learned that "missiles" are not spent "missles", and decided to own the mistake rather than reword the entire guide.

                Also, the font used for the monospace examples in the post is a great kick to the nostalgia. Which one is it? It reminds me of https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/font?ibm_vga_...

                  • mananaysiempre

                    today at 12:10 AM

                    Judging by the lowercase “m” it’s the 8x16 variation[1] and not the 9x16 one you linked, but otherwise yes, looks like the plain old VGA font? (Incorrectly displayed, as the site points out: the VGA didn’t have square pixels in either of those modes.) The site uses (AVIF) images in place of text, but it’s like 15 minutes to write a program that typesets an ASCII file in a given monospace bitmap font and writes out the result as say a PPM (and I’m sure ImageMagick can do it if you’d rather dig through docs than program), so this doesn’t seem to require any further explanation?

                    [1] https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/font?ibm_vga_...

                    • EGreg

                      today at 12:27 AM

                      I think you meant "spelt" rather than spent. A but ironic, all things considered.

                        • _jackdk_

                          today at 4:05 AM

                          I did, yes. A but ironic indeed.

                          • zdragnar

                            today at 1:02 AM

                            Now I'm wondering if you meant to use but instead of bit intentionally or not... I'm not great with subtle humor in writing.

                            • card_zero

                              today at 12:49 AM

                              Muphry's law, innit

                                • fwipsy

                                  today at 1:50 AM

                                  oh ironny

                                    • Dban1

                                      today at 2:11 AM

                                      I think you menat to spell "irony"

                              • firecall

                                today at 1:56 AM

                                And there I was wondering about used missiles!

                                Apparently, I googled, “expended ordnance” is the term.

                                • aaron695

                                  today at 1:10 AM

                                  [dead]

                              • kibwen

                                today at 12:24 AM

                                > learned that "missiles" are not spent "missles"

                                I choose to believe that the author was channeling the spirit of Noah Webster as a deliberate champion of phonetic spelling reform.

                                  • somat

                                    today at 12:42 AM

                                    Or Andrew Jackson approaching the problem from the other end.

                                    “It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word.”

                                    As a rather, well... "creative" speller I blame Webster for locking things down and ruining it for the rest of us.

                                      • jimmydddd

                                        today at 1:52 AM

                                        I few years ago I saw a TV interview where some gen-z kid confidently stated: "the dictdionary is supposed to reflect how I talk, not the other was around."

                                          • xboxnolifes

                                            today at 2:42 AM

                                            The tricky part is that spoken language and written language are not the same. Even if you are a descriptionist that believes dictionaries should represent how people write, it doesn't necessarily mean that the spelling changes based on how people pronounce it.

                                            • eru

                                              today at 2:09 AM

                                              That's actually how many of the dictionary people see themselves.

                                              • tux3

                                                today at 2:52 AM

                                                Also known as descriptivism. That's what it do.

                                                • saulpw

                                                  today at 2:51 AM

                                                  A natural descriptivist.

                                          • cyphar

                                            today at 2:13 AM

                                            And are British, at least in Australia (and the US, I guess?) we pronounce the second "i".

                                            It is always fun when you notice where someone is from based on secondary clues like that -- my favourite is the choice of "a" or "an" where it is ambiguous (for instance, I recently ran across "an HTTP request" where I would've said "a HTTP request").

                                            • saghm

                                              today at 1:20 AM

                                              I'd argue that "le" is not really phonetic to how people pronounce words ending in that; "missils" would be more phonetic

                                              • eru

                                                today at 12:50 AM

                                                Should be missels then?

                                                  • rmunn

                                                    today at 1:43 AM

                                                    Let's settle the argument by all agreeing on mussels instead, and enjoy a nice seafood dish with garlic and a white wine sauce. Delicious.

                                                    • rkagerer

                                                      today at 1:49 AM

                                                      They're where they keep the nuclear wessels.

                                          • card_zero

                                            today at 12:26 AM

                                              This might potentially
                                              rejuvenate the writing
                                              by disrupting habitual
                                              patterns, which forces
                                              more original choices.

                                              • cottsak

                                                today at 12:56 AM

                                                Could be a saving grace in the age where the robots come up with all the copy.

                                                  • someguyiguess

                                                    today at 1:22 AM

                                                    Robots would excel at writing that sort of copy I’d assume. (I haven’t tested it but doubt an LLM couldn’t handle that)

                                                      • crackalamoo

                                                        today at 3:41 AM

                                                        An raw LLM no, but given code execution it can do a good job. I had my Claude Sonnet write a sonnet in this form after 14 rounds of iteration with Python:

                                                        The autumn wind moves slow across the field,

                                                        and every falling leaf now yields its fight.

                                                        The summer gold at last has ceased to yield,

                                                        and short days now give way to longer night.

                                                        I walk alone beside a calm and quiet stream,

                                                        and watch it slowly carry every fallen leaf.

                                                        I think of you as some half-forgotten dream,

                                                        and taste again that same old, bitter grief.

                                                        The silent stars come out to watch it still,

                                                        and pale moonlight falls gently on the hill.

                                                        A lonesome owl calls out from past the mill,

                                                        and time moves on, unhurried and calm, until

                                                        the dawn returns to paint the sky brand new,

                                                        and I still recall the love I lost with you.

                                                          • card_zero

                                                            today at 4:00 AM

                                                            Monospace formatting: start each line with two spaces to get monospace (and then you won't need double linebreaks).

                                                        • chrisfosterelli

                                                          today at 3:01 AM

                                                          I suspect LLMs would actually struggle significantly with doing it consistently if given purely as a prompt instruction, but you could always constrict the sampling to force words that create a legitimate chain or fine tune / RL in some signal that would assist with it.

                                                            • today at 3:42 AM

                                                              • urams

                                                                today at 3:36 AM

                                                                  You are right that this is hard from a prompt alone, but for a slightly stranger
                                                                  reason than the obvious one. The model never sees columns. It sees tokens, and a
                                                                  token can be one character or nine, so "make this line 80 wide" asks it to run a
                                                                  hidden tally over pieces it cannot count by looking at them. Any slip early in a
                                                                  line compounds, and there is no backspace key to reach for once it is committed.
                                                                  That said, the failure is not total. A model can lean on a learned feel for line
                                                                  length, pick shorter or longer synonyms to land close to the target, and rewrite
                                                                  a sentence when it overshoots. It will not be perfect every time, but it lands a
                                                                  lot more often than pure chance would suggest. The sampling trick you mention is
                                                                  the real fix: mask each token that would push a line past the limit, and force a
                                                                  newline the moment the count hits the mark. That converts a fuzzy instruction to
                                                                  a hard constraint with zero training. Fine tuning helps too, but mostly sharpens
                                                                  the same internal counter rather than replacing it. This reply is a small proof;
                                                                  if any line here is off by one, feel free to consider your point demonstrated...

                                                            • DoctorOetker

                                                              today at 1:37 AM

                                                              "perhaps it would be best to let the browsers do it on screens, and typesetting software for printed materials, since they have access to the font, size, text region boundaries, it comes at the small cost that users don't actually get to read what an author wrote, but increasingly this is an LLM anyways, if its a website or legal contract alike"

                                                              • jobuildsstuff

                                                                today at 2:23 AM

                                                                [flagged]

                                                            • scott_weber

                                                              today at 1:21 AM

                                                              And here I at first thought the direction the original post was going was "here's how I got a LLM to do this automatically". Seems like it would not be so difficult. Might still be be a win over their innate dispositions.

                                                                • nvme0n1p1

                                                                  today at 1:57 AM

                                                                  Tom 7 did something like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y65FRxE7uMc

                                                                  > BoVeX gives us a controlled tradeoff between these two states. By changing how much it costs for the text to be semantically wrong, we have a dial that allows us to smoothly interpolate between Lorem Epsom and Donald Knuth.

                                                                  • today at 1:43 AM

                                                        • gyomu

                                                          today at 12:21 AM

                                                          > At the same time, who among us didn’t nod in recognition at least, having once spent hours massaging a button UI string or a tooltip just to get it to fit under the certain width in a densely packed interface?

                                                          I did, and then I got a customer email about how they were using a display-zoom OS accessibility feature and things were truncated on their device. :')

                                                          See also: localizing your interface to German

                                                            • crooked-v

                                                              today at 12:29 AM

                                                              Yep, any concern about text widows and orphans in modern app layouts becomes irrelevant as soon as you have to localize.

                                                              Just build your layout so it can squash/stretch appropriately.

                                                                • xboxnolifes

                                                                  today at 2:53 AM

                                                                  Or if you're really insane, localize the entire UI.

                                                              • someguyiguess

                                                                today at 1:23 AM

                                                                Anyone who ever worked as a front end developer definitely felt this.

                                                                  • t098i3

                                                                    today at 2:47 AM

                                                                    Even as a backend dev who dabbles in frontend as a hobby - I get the view looking great on desktop, then a week later I open the site on mobile and am horrified

                                                            • brooke2k

                                                              today at 1:05 AM

                                                              this is only tangentially related to the article, but I've always found text justification strange. For me paragraphs with ragged edges are easier to read than justified paragraphs, because the irregular ending point helps me keep track of where I am. And justification can lead to some very odd-looking lines. So I've just never quite understood why it's so common in typesetting

                                                                • jolmg

                                                                  today at 3:43 AM

                                                                  It's just neatness. Like ironing clothes or putting on a tie, it's not about it serving a functional purpose. It's just to show off straight lines.

                                                                  • JeremyMorgan

                                                                    today at 2:02 AM

                                                                    I've never given this much thought, but I agree with you 100%.

                                                                    After reading this article I thought "wow that's really impressive and I hate it".

                                                                    For the same reasons you mention, and the words seem to "blend together" into a blob of text and losing my interest.

                                                                    Still super impressive that people do this though.

                                                                    • cute_boi

                                                                      today at 1:07 AM

                                                                      Same here, justified text feels difficult to read. And, I had academia where where students are forced to justify text....

                                                                  • fhub

                                                                    yesterday at 11:34 PM

                                                                    Two definitions that I had to look up.

                                                                    * Widow: a short final line of a paragraph that gets stranded at the top of the next page or column.

                                                                    * Orphan: a first line of a paragraph stranded at the bottom of a page or column.

                                                                      • a_bonobo

                                                                        today at 1:18 AM

                                                                        The German is more crass: Hurenkind and Schusterjunge, translates to 'child of a whore' and 'shoemaker boy'. The child of a whore does not know where it comes from (who is their father), the short final line - the shoemaker boy is so poor, he does not know where he will end up (the short first line)

                                                                        https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurenkind_und_Schusterjunge

                                                                        Edit: Also, LaTeX has specific penalties for those two: https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/32116

                                                                        • Leonard_of_Q

                                                                          yesterday at 11:43 PM

                                                                          Those who lived through the (text-mode) WordPerfect era may remember 'widow and orphan protection' as being one of the features which was advertised for this program, i.e it could be set to either move that orphaned first line of a new paragraph to the next page or move a few extra lines or a whole paragraph to the next page to keep the widow company.

                                                                            • nosioptar

                                                                              today at 12:06 AM

                                                                              Text mode WP is the reason I hate almost all word processors, everything else is tepid goat piss by comparison.

                                                                                • kkfkekfoked

                                                                                  today at 1:08 AM

                                                                                  A bit over dramatic, but then again this HN.

                                                                              • schoen

                                                                                today at 1:04 AM

                                                                                I remember using WordPerfect in that era and never understanding what that feature was. It seemed implausible to me that it was actually protecting human widows and orphans, but I couldn't imagine what it had to do with text layout!

                                                                                  • jolmg

                                                                                    today at 4:05 AM

                                                                                    Kinda cool when you learn the answer to something you were wondering about decades ago.

                                                                        • ivw

                                                                          yesterday at 11:11 PM

                                                                          suckerpinch has a great video where he uses an LLM to do this same thing automatically

                                                                          https://tom7.org/bovex/

                                                                            • hankbond

                                                                              today at 12:15 AM

                                                                              towards the end of the knuth version

                                                                              > This presents a problem for the typical way that academic papers are written, which is to do all the work in a coffee-fueled fugue in the last few days before the deadline, then stay up all night writing the paper and finding citations for the pro-forma “related work” section which you did last but you know that the reviewers will insist upon

                                                                              I have zero exposure to academia but chuckled because thats often what I do for blog posts :P

                                                                                • eru

                                                                                  today at 12:55 AM

                                                                                  AIs these days are pretty good for the 'find prior art and related work' part I find. Of course, you should treat their output like that of an over-eager but somewhat unreliable intern.

                                                                              • ivanjermakov

                                                                                yesterday at 11:16 PM

                                                                                No mention of Tom7's "Badness 0" by the author is the a crime!

                                                                                  • uolmir

                                                                                    yesterday at 11:35 PM

                                                                                    He managed to create the ultimate version of form over function. All hail Lorem Epsom.

                                                                                • asddubs

                                                                                  today at 1:16 AM

                                                                                  and in latex too, not just monospace

                                                                              • GeertB

                                                                                today at 12:42 AM

                                                                                I've definitely been guilty of wording my multi-line doc comments in a way that would ensure they'd flow without awkward right margins. I would have a macro in vim that would call the fmt program to reflow the comment to 79 (later 98) characters, and then would iterate on word choice until the comments looked good. Not exactly right-justified, but no very ragged edge either.

                                                                                • CarVac

                                                                                  today at 12:18 AM

                                                                                  My dad told a story of a classmate in high school going through the effort of manually justifying text in a paper he wrote and being rewarded with a plagiarism accusation.

                                                                                  That was done by typing the whole paper twice, with added spaces the second time.

                                                                                  • BubbleRings

                                                                                    today at 1:09 AM

                                                                                    I’ve been searching all over for a classic example of this that I first found around 1986, but I can’t locate it. It went on for a page or two, hand justified lines of maybe 40 characters, and then at the end of it he started making each line one character shorter, until the essay ended with these, the only words I remember from it:

                                                                                    dumb is

                                                                                    what I

                                                                                    think

                                                                                    this

                                                                                    end

                                                                                    is

                                                                                    !

                                                                                    If somebody can find it, share it here, I’m going to post it on my own website so it is saved for history. The last time I saw it was 5 or 10 years ago, and there was only one or two copies on the internet at that time, and now there seems to be none.

                                                                                  • yetanotherjosh

                                                                                    today at 1:43 AM

                                                                                    In a very real sense this is exactly what LLM watermarking does. It "chooss the words carefully" in order to get text to "line up," but not with a visible margin... instead with a verifiable word distribution that proves the author knew a secret key.

                                                                                    • Boxxed

                                                                                      today at 1:23 AM

                                                                                      I do this at work with the comments in my code. No one's ever noticed <thumbs-down-emoji>

                                                                                      • zellyn

                                                                                        yesterday at 11:58 PM

                                                                                        I remember reading Project Gutenberg email updates from Michael S. Hart in the mid to late 90s that were famously formatted like this.

                                                                                        It’s not too hard if you try, once you get in the groove :-)

                                                                                        • epistasis

                                                                                          yesterday at 11:15 PM

                                                                                          I am filled with both a deep admiration and horror at this.

                                                                                          It's shockingly impressive.

                                                                                            • cm2012

                                                                                              yesterday at 11:38 PM

                                                                                              And that it was done for an amateur game guide! This is like a legendary work of art.

                                                                                          • RobRivera

                                                                                            yesterday at 11:46 PM

                                                                                            Man. I kinda want to stress test my memory of super metroid before reading this guide. I could do a sub 3hr run through at 100% when I was a child.

                                                                                            I know I couldn't today.

                                                                                            • lanyard-textile

                                                                                              today at 12:20 AM

                                                                                              I have never felt more seen. I do this with comments all the time, rewording things to look nice on that 80 or 100 column mark.

                                                                                                • kkfkekfoked

                                                                                                  today at 1:08 AM

                                                                                                  And it shows! Wait, no, it doesn’t.

                                                                                              • cpeterso

                                                                                                today at 2:37 AM

                                                                                                In a recent interview on Conan O'Brien's podcast, Gillian Anderson said X-Files creator Chris Carter wrote his scripts visually so they didn't have any widows (the last line of a paragraph carried over to the top of the next page):

                                                                                                Chris told me I mean that there was a particular way that we used to speak in the show that it that wasn't a normal rhythm and syntax. It was slightly backwards. which felt like it was almost part of the cryptic aspect of the series.

                                                                                                And it wasn't until we were working on this, I think, the second feature. I was sitting in a parked vehicle waiting to shoot and our showrunner and creator Chris Carter came up to me who was directing the feature and he said he looked at my sides where my lines were and he said, "Look, no widows." And I said, "What what are you talking about?" He said, "No, no widows on the paragraphs that each character has." the word went all the way to the end with the period. So, you didn't like end halfway through that line. So, it was a perfect So, it was a perfect rectangle.

                                                                                                So, the dialogue was designed visually. For nine years. [laughter] Wow. So, you're struggling. You're struggling with his OCD.

                                                                                                • underyx

                                                                                                  today at 12:20 AM

                                                                                                  So maybe it is possible to use alternate words in writing without compromising on writing quality after all.

                                                                                                  • stevage

                                                                                                    today at 12:02 AM

                                                                                                    The part that horrifies me about this is the disincentive to revise any part of the text due to the flow-on effects.

                                                                                                    • ChannelFence

                                                                                                      today at 1:22 AM

                                                                                                      Before LLMs, there were Markov chain bots. We used SeeBorg on IRC and over time its dictionary would fill up with whatever everyone said. Most of it was nonsense, but every once in a while it would say something perfectly timed. Almost everything It said making sense or not was hilarious though.

                                                                                                      (source: https://github.com/allanlw/seeborg)

                                                                                                      • initramfs

                                                                                                        yesterday at 11:50 PM

                                                                                                        I used to go to my computer laboratory in high school and at my mom's work to print out GameFAQ walkthroughs in the late 90s. They were excellent. I wrote this to remind myself of simple fun that's been superseded by grander ambitions, and sometimes I think I am wrong for choosing the latter.

                                                                                                        • lukeh

                                                                                                          yesterday at 11:16 PM

                                                                                                          Ha, I quite enjoy doing this in comments or commit messages where practicable. But, that's just a few lines. :)

                                                                                                            • rmunn

                                                                                                              today at 4:11 AM

                                                                                                              I must admit to occasionally rearranging words or choosing different synonyms to make a column of spaces line up in a monospaced paragraph, so that you could draw a straight line down one column the screen without passing through any letters or punctuation. Or making a diagonal line of spaces, top-left to bottom-right.

                                                                                                              I usually only did that when the text already was close to lining up that way, though.

                                                                                                              • boothby

                                                                                                                yesterday at 11:54 PM

                                                                                                                It's a guilty pleasure of mine, spending a few minutes to clean up the aesthetics of docstrings and comments. I justify (heh) it to myself by catching unclear wording on this last cleanup pass -- and not taking it too far, obstrusifying for the aesthetic.

                                                                                                            • techknight

                                                                                                              yesterday at 11:44 PM

                                                                                                              If I remember correctly, this is the tweet (and HN post) that brought it to the attention of the world back in 2021: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28651093

                                                                                                              • Funes-

                                                                                                                today at 1:39 AM

                                                                                                                I must admit I've indulged in constrained writing when I was a teenager with the same purpose: circumventing spontaneous layout errors in Word when writing a paper for school, feeling a non-negligible amount of anxiety due to the deadline being around the corner. Terrifying.

                                                                                                                  • johnxianren

                                                                                                                    today at 2:11 AM

                                                                                                                    I still do that. I'll tweak the wording just so a single name doesn't sit on its own line.

                                                                                                                • msephton

                                                                                                                  yesterday at 11:49 PM

                                                                                                                  BITD I used Protext word processor on Atari ST (and later DOS/Windows PC) which automatically justified monospace text. It also had a pretty good dictionary (all in 512KB of RAM) and I remember doing this word dance to get lines to flow better.

                                                                                                                  Manual: https://www.atarimania.com/st/files/protext_5_04_arnor.pdf

                                                                                                                  Screenshot of manual section: https://jumpshare.com/share/jOnMu7M36AOEWyoL0QDl

                                                                                                                    • today at 12:17 AM

                                                                                                                  • d--b

                                                                                                                    today at 3:33 AM

                                                                                                                    Made me think of constrained writing like what was done by the Oulipo group in France.

                                                                                                                    • oxonia

                                                                                                                      yesterday at 11:18 PM

                                                                                                                      Ye gods! The fact that this was done by hand... I have no words.

                                                                                                                      • bywater

                                                                                                                        yesterday at 11:54 PM

                                                                                                                        Learned this the hard way explaining a bug fix; a single ambiguous term derailed an hour-long discussion.

                                                                                                                        • quanto

                                                                                                                          today at 12:34 AM

                                                                                                                          A human victory by sheer willpower. I find the story oddly uplifting.

                                                                                                                          • domador

                                                                                                                            today at 1:52 AM

                                                                                                                            I recently started reading a book sample for "Superintelligence" on Kindle, but stopped reading because all the text was noticeably justified, often with large gaps between words in many sentences. This was very annoying, especially since the option to disable justification was unjustifiably disabled.

                                                                                                                            Strangely enough, this same book doesn't have the same problem on other platforms.

                                                                                                                            • semiinfinitely

                                                                                                                              today at 12:16 AM

                                                                                                                              this is the kind of content I come to hackernews for

                                                                                                                              • gkoberger

                                                                                                                                yesterday at 11:30 PM

                                                                                                                                The Super Metroid guide is the kind of thing that AI will render obsolete, which makes me sad.

                                                                                                                                One of my favorite quotes is from Penn and Teller, "Sometimes magic is just someone spending more time on something than anyone else might reasonably expect". AI has shifted that a bit.

                                                                                                                                But lots of technology has rendered formerly human-lead things obsolete, and I'm sure we'll find new ways to express creativity.

                                                                                                                                  • LtWorf

                                                                                                                                    yesterday at 11:37 PM

                                                                                                                                    LaTeX has existed for a certain amount of years already.

                                                                                                                                      • gkoberger

                                                                                                                                        yesterday at 11:44 PM

                                                                                                                                        Sure but that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the guy who wrote a 17,000 guide manually in monospace so that it was justified.

                                                                                                                                          • garciansmith

                                                                                                                                            today at 12:54 AM

                                                                                                                                            But he didn't need to do that before either. He did it because he cared (in a weird way, sure). And some people will still care.

                                                                                                                                            Video game text FAQs in general though were a dying genre before gen AI anyhow. Something I bemoan when I try to find one little piece of info and I'm faced with guides that are spread out on dozens of webpages for impressions of ads that I don't even see, or long videos that I have try to scroll through and take a ton of time just to find out if the person even went to the area I'm interested in. I sure miss Ctrl+F on GameFAQs.

                                                                                                                                              • gkoberger

                                                                                                                                                today at 12:58 AM

                                                                                                                                                Yup that's my point, and maybe the bigger issue isn't if people care or not but rather... can we distinguish between "they cared" and "they spent 30 seconds on a prompt".

                                                                                                                                        • kkfkekfoked

                                                                                                                                          today at 1:09 AM

                                                                                                                                          Lt. Worf tends to be a bit “shoot first ask questions never” be he was never this dense. C’mon.

                                                                                                                                  • brcmthrowaway

                                                                                                                                    today at 12:57 AM

                                                                                                                                    There is some bizarre stuff that gets posted on weekends. It's like reading the New Yorker.

                                                                                                                                    • iLemming

                                                                                                                                      today at 2:58 AM

                                                                                                                                      Almost irrelevant to the story itself, but here's what it feels like to use Emacs these days.

                                                                                                                                      The story talks about monospace fonts and how unappealing they could be for reading prose. It is a fascinating post on itself, but here's what happened - it caught my eye while I was busy, I clicked the link, it opened the page, I kept it hanging around and forgot about it. Then HN page got buried in my browser history. After a while, I found the tab, I read the story and it made me thinking if anyone shared any thoughts on HN. Instead of digging it up from browser history - I ran consult-hn and found the thread - it showed up in an org-mode-derived buffer of hn-reader.el. I was reading through the comments, and I was like: "yah, this probably would be easier and faster to read if I used a different font". I enabled variable-pitch-mode, but it didn't get much better - the default font I set for the face isn't great - I just needed something that existed in both Linux and Mac. I should've picked a better one.

                                                                                                                                      "Let me try a different font", I thought. And how do you change the font family in Emacs? There's probably a way doing it through the UI, but thank you, no thank you - I have a programmable editor. I instinctively opened a scratch buffer and started typing: (set-face-attribute ... And at that point I realized: "Well, this would, a) Change the font everywhere b) What the heck were the parameters for this sucker?".

                                                                                                                                      Of course, why not ask the LLM? I started typing the prompt, right in that buffer. I could've just finish typing and call (gptel-send). But, "what if this becomes a longer chat?". I mean, I still could continue chatting in that buffer, but there are benefits for having specialized gptel buffer, for instance, all my gptel-dedicated buffers get automatically saved. So, instead, I invoked (gptel-inline) - if the answer is short - I'd dismiss the popup and if I have follow-ups, I'll just continue.

                                                                                                                                      LLM told me how to change the font in the current buffer. But I said: "I want to change it for any chosen buffer, since I'd be invoking this from the scratch buffer". At this point I was thinking: "I'm just fooling around, but let's see where it takes me..." It gave me this code snippet.

                                                                                                                                          (with-current-buffer "target-buffer-name"
                                                                                                                                           (setq buffer-face-mode-face '(:family "Georgia" :height 140))
                                                                                                                                           (buffer-face-mode 1))
                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                      Since a gptel buffer is just an ordinary buffer, I changed `target-buffer-name` to `HNComments` and evaled it. The font in the buffer immediately changed. "Meh, I don't like this one, I want to try another...", then I changed the font name.

                                                                                                                                      And at that point, I felt so stupid for wasting my time, I typed: "Can you just build me a consult picker, to select a font for a given buffer with a live preview."

                                                                                                                                      And it just did. ~25 LOC. It took me far longer to write about it, in reality, the transition from a fleeting thought, from a mere idea to a concrete implementation took me seconds. Seconds!

                                                                                                                                      And now I have a command that I can either keep in my scratch buffer, or stick into my config. Or literally just discard until next time I need to temporarily change the font in a given buffer.

                                                                                                                                      Note: this is not a post about "how awesome it is to use AI in Emacs", no. It is all about how enormously flexible Emacs is to bend around to deal with any kind of text.

                                                                                                                                      • nathell

                                                                                                                                        today at 1:29 AM

                                                                                                                                        Obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/276/

                                                                                                                                        • imnotr0b0t

                                                                                                                                          today at 12:37 AM

                                                                                                                                          Sometimes I think I'm too detail-oriented. Then I remember that someone once spent weeks manually rewording a game FAQ so the right margin would look pretty in a text file. And I feel better about myself...

                                                                                                                                          • crate_88

                                                                                                                                            today at 12:09 AM

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