German carmakers flood jobs market with managers after wielding axe
34 points - today at 7:24 PM
SourceThese corporate fads always run in cycles. Any large organization needs some resource managers but what is the optimal span of control? What tends to happen is that businesses lay off a bunch of managers and flatten the hierarchy. This does increase efficiency for a while. But then it becomes harder to keep individual contributors on track and focused towards key goals so the executives eventually end up hiring more managers again.
Not a scientific study, but here in the UK where we don't have tariffs against Chinese car manufacturers, there are loads of electric BYDs and Jaecoos (the "Temu Range Rover") driving around recently.
seanalltogether
today at 9:29 PM
Yeah I can get a byd dolphin for half the price of the cheapest tesla. I'm sure the 2 aren't equally comparable, but considering all we need is a second car for my wife to drive at most 20-30 miles per day, I could never justify a tesla for that.
Yeah with China pumping state subventions into car manufacturing, they can outcompete any car manufacturer anywhere in the world. The leading battery technology is in Asia anyways.
The German car industry will not die completely, as the EU can protect its market from chinese manufacturers through regulation. But it will shrink and transform. Probably also back to fossil fuels (yuck), because there the Germans still have a lead (they are trailing with EVs).
Germany's new hot industry is defense technology.
leonidasrup
today at 9:08 PM
German car industry can produce state of art ICE, because they can manufacture the heart of ICE - the engine.
German car industry is trailing with EVs, because they can not manufacture the heart of EV - the battery.
sajithdilshan
today at 9:12 PM
I think the biggest problem with German EVs are not the battery but the software. EVs are practically computers on a wheel and compared to the competitors the software and features it offers are still terrible. I remember VW even had a huge joint venture with Rivian to get things back on track. But seems like it didn’t work out
> EVs are practically computers on a wheel
aren't all cars these days?
Is the Chinese automotive software better than the German equivalent?
that's not the issue, you can buy the batteries if you wanted to. The problem is that EVs require about 50% less labor than ICE cars and this is the first time since the 80s that German car companies have started to fire anyone or close plants. Car companies here aren't price competitive, software or a battery you can always purchase.
China has the big advantage of having designed these car companies around drastically reduced labor needs and until we adapt to that we're not going to compete on the most important factor which is how much the car costs.
They're also making cars that people want to buy for a price they can afford. Toyota aren't making any cars I want to buy (at any price).
And yet the Toyota RAV4 hybrid is selling so fast in the USA that customers can barely find one at a dealership.
sajithdilshan
today at 9:15 PM
Last time the Germans got into defence technology, it didn’t end well for the whole world. Let’s hope it wouldn’t be the case this time
ahartmetz
today at 9:28 PM
Well, the intention is much more really-actually-defensive this time.
The BYD cars are in Germany too, I see them quite often in cities
Credit Suisse went down 2 years ago in Switzerland, flooding the market with finance and IT people...
But do they dual-wield?
superhuzza
today at 8:28 PM
Yeah, the title is worded quite oddly.
At least I hope they leave the corporate culture baggage that has ruined the German car industry behind and do not transplant it into other companies. In which you stick to your old guns and hope that politics protects you with tariffs against any future developments from international competitors on the car market. (It failed. Now the Chinese make better cars than the Germans.)
CrimsonRain
today at 9:32 PM
No chance. Hiring these people will be toxic for any companies.
There is no chance that they will leave it behind.
> Now the Chinese make better cars than the Germans.
Thanks to heavy subsidization of the industry by Chinese government to gain an competitive advantage.
If by heavy subsidies you mean - encouraging internal competition, securing cheap energy and educating thousands of engineers then yes, Chinese cars are subsidized.
If by heavy subsidies you mean pocketing 150 billions of dollars from EU R&D budget for innovation that have never happened then no, Chinese cars manufacturers are not subsidized.
PowerElectronix
today at 9:19 PM
They found out that manager do not, in fact, design, manufacture, test or sell cars.
Also, wielding axes in a working environment is a big no-no, no wonder they're out.
sajithdilshan
today at 8:58 PM
I remember seeing a video that labels these people as doing bullshit jobs. As an example in UPS the people that actually delivers the packages are the ones doing the real work. However between those workers and CEO there are like ten or more levels of management and all those people just sitting at an office doing basically nothing.
Same with VW or with any other traditional German company. Sometimes to justify their job they would create problems that doesn’t exist and come up with a solution
warkdarrior
today at 9:09 PM
I don't know what is the right amount of management, and I'm sure there are some management roles that add no value, but it seems to me that you cannot have UPS function with just a CEO and, say, 10000 delivery drivers and no middle managers.
calvinmorrison
today at 9:13 PM
its just people underestimating what people do in their actual jobs. Every thing has a huge long tail of work. things like 'accounting' is obvious but there are entire jobs around just buying stuff, around logistics, around fleet management, around managing your staff (HR), there are LOTs of specialized roles and they're not all dumb because you think they don't do anything.
Even in accounting there are many roles and subspecialties!
sajithdilshan
today at 9:22 PM
I think you misunderstood my comment, I was talking about different layers of management. Not different roles like accounting or sales etc. but there is absolutely no reason to have 10 different layers of management.
calvinmorrison
today at 9:33 PM
for someone like VAG or UPS why not? You can only remember/cram so much context into a single persons head, at some point you gotta split it up. In IT, you rarely see companies having managers with more than 6 direct reports. Of course in retail that number can bump up. But if you have a 4 or 5 thousand employees - you'll have 6 layers. Of course there are ways around it (I worked at F500 where i only talked to my boss rarely, and was managed by others on my team).
Triaengle
today at 8:26 PM
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CrzyLngPwd
today at 8:11 PM
[flagged]
zelphirkalt
today at 8:19 PM
Well, what did we expect from the clowns we elected, when few of them ever worked an actual job? Election after election, we are voting for the same incompetent corrupt people. Really what do we expect? And what do we expect to happen, when we elect the very people, who time and time again lied to use for decades? Also thanks to all retirees, who fill their ballot papers with the mindset of: "I always voted for them!".
I guess we have had a good run for far too long, so that complacency is finally catching up with us. The only sad thing is, that many people, who deserved better have to suffer for it.
But lets not be too sad about some middle management being let go. They are often part of the problem. Let us rather be sad about educated and capable people losing their jobs and dropping into a very difficult job market, which they might not recover from.
dev_l1x_be
today at 8:15 PM
Welcome to Germany? The best part is the drone situation. Both parties are buying from China.
It is indeed an accurate description. I live in a neighboring country. Germany's energy failure costs me the equivalent of about an entry level Macbook Pro every year.
I don't have kind words for SPD/Die GrĂĽnen in specific, or, to be frank, Germany in general.
> I don't have kind words for SPD/Die GrĂĽnen in specific, or, to be frank, Germany in general.
because they've governed Germany for the past decades ... wait ... they have not?
Out of the last 28 years they have spent only 4 in the opposition. SPD together with CDU are the two major parties shaping Germany. As opposition they also always had a majority veto right.
sajithdilshan
today at 9:00 PM
SPD has been part of almost every government formed since the WWII
ahartmetz
today at 9:24 PM
Oh no, not at all. When CDU and SPD were both very strong (until about 2005-2010), they never once had a coalition, and CDU won elections more often than SPD.
sajithdilshan
today at 9:30 PM
Yeah right, Willy Brandt and Helmut Schmidt are from CDU
Gerhard Schröder, German social democrat/SPD and later Putin associate.