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Decoy Font

254 points - today at 4:18 PM

Source
  • OsrsNeedsf2P

    today at 4:52 PM

    Is it useful? No. Does it stop AI from reading it? Also no. But is it cool? Yes, it is very cool.

      • jszymborski

        today at 6:51 PM

        I think this illustrates that you can just do stuff without claiming it is useful. Like couldn't you just make this font and call it something like double-entendre or something?

          • BugsJustFindMe

            today at 6:56 PM

            You could, but is that what they've done?

              • jszymborski

                today at 6:59 PM

                I'm just saying they should just drop the dubious claims and just say "I made a font that I think looks cool".

                  • BugsJustFindMe

                    today at 7:11 PM

                    Oh, I fully agree

        • jonplackett

          today at 6:47 PM

          I just gave the day dream / pay bills image to ChatGPT and Gemini pro and they both could only tell me the pay bills text (shown with the thin lines)

            • goodmythical

              today at 7:11 PM

              Gemini flash responds to "can you read both messages here?" with:

              Yes, this is a clever optical illusion! Depending on which layers your eyes focus on, you can read two entirely different messages in this image:

                  Message 1 (The sharp outline layer):
              
                      PAY BILLS
              
                      How to see it: Focus on the sharp, concentric black outline contours of the letters.
              
                  Message 2 (The soft, blurry shadow layer):
              
                      DAY DREAMS
              
                      How to see it: Let your eyes relax/defocus slightly, or step back from the screen to focus on the soft, heavy grey drop shadows. The blurred shadows transform the "P" into a D, the "B" into a D, the "I" into an R, the "L"s into an M, and the "S" is shared!

              • xnickb

                today at 7:05 PM

                Sure, but this is only as useful as useless it is.

                Meaning the moment this gets wide adoption AI will have 0 issues dealing with it. LLMs are very good at translating one language to another.

            • Tubelord

              today at 8:39 PM

              If you present the text in an image / GIF format is could be useful.

              • CGMthrowaway

                today at 5:39 PM

                > Is it useful? No

                Seems like it might have some use thwarting Ring/Flock/etc cameras within a specific proximity.

                It's giving major "They Live" vibes.

                • jere

                  today at 7:49 PM

                  It's similar to any anti face detection art. Probably useless but cool.

                  • inigyou

                    today at 5:14 PM

                    The demonstration shows that it does stop AI

                      • legohead

                        today at 5:29 PM

                        I made an image and it fooled GPT. I asked it to look for a hidden message and it found the blurred word.

                        Still cool+fun though.

                        • sheept

                          today at 5:20 PM

                          It only works if you give it a screenshot, but it wouldn't work to block AI scrapers or fetch tools, and I think if printed out, it wouldn't work reliably if you took a photo, especially from afar

                          • goodmythical

                            today at 7:13 PM

                            The demonstration might, and it may work for certain models with certain prompts, but I just asked gemini if it could see both and it both did see both and gave me a tutorial on how I could see both as if it were a simple magic eye poster.

                            • pixl97

                              today at 8:20 PM

                              I mean, I've worked for companies where their curated sales demonstrations showed the speed of light is easily breakable... Do your own testing with some thinking applied.

                              https://m.xkcd.com/1217/

                              I mean, I can defeat AI by putting white text on a white background and turning to a picture. Also means it's worthless for actual humans to read too. Try to actually use it on a site and chances are you'll get an ADA complaint.

                          • Cshaya

                            today at 5:33 PM

                            sometimes in life there is no reason to kick a rock around besides having fun ;)

                            • Morromist

                              today at 7:54 PM

                              Ehh. Probably not many people will be using this particular thing to thwart ai BUT I think it may be a stop on a path towards something very useful someday.

                              • ryant123

                                today at 5:06 PM

                                Yeah, it looks good

                                • TiredOfLife

                                  today at 6:42 PM

                                  Is it useful? No. Does it stop AI from reading it? Also no. But is it cool? Also no. Does it give me nausea? Yes yes yes.

                              • gilesvangruisen

                                today at 5:59 PM

                                Sol (high)

                                "[screenshot] there's a hidden message in this text what is it"

                                "The hidden message is “HAPPY HUMAN.”

                                The visible outlines say “SORRY ROBOT,” but if you blur or squint at it, the shading underneath reads “HAPPY HUMAN.”"

                                  • today at 9:02 PM

                                    • make3

                                      today at 6:42 PM

                                      wow that's kind of crazy impressive that it can do that honestly, VLMs have gone so far, can't imagine the crazy amount of annotations they had to create to get to that level

                                  • Dwedit

                                    today at 4:53 PM

                                    This is just level of detail. Gemma E4B reads the sharper text until you resize down to 150x150, then it reads the other text.

                                      • crazygringo

                                        today at 5:08 PM

                                        As do I. The hero image clearly says "SORRY ROBOT" to me, which is the message supposedly intended for AI... kind of a fail.

                                        It's only when I squint hard that I can see "HAPPY HUMAN".

                                          • hananova

                                            today at 5:16 PM

                                            You’re doing it the wrong way around, try intentionally letting your eyes defocus.

                                        • AlotOfReading

                                          today at 5:16 PM

                                          Downsizing is effectively low pass filtering, so that's expected. Any scheme that transmits different messages in different frequency bands is going to be susceptible to a similar attack.

                                      • redlewel

                                        today at 8:21 PM

                                        Poor grannies trying to read the price of some book she wants to buy she can't tell if it says $150 or $15.0

                                        • mrweasel

                                          today at 5:02 PM

                                          Admittedly I'm a bit salty about LLMs due to they constant attacks on our infrastructure, the damage their doing to peoples minds and the general lack of morals shown by the AI companies, but things like this is rather childish and not really a solution to anything.

                                            • fckgw

                                              today at 5:50 PM

                                              Have you no whimsy?

                                                • pixl97

                                                  today at 8:23 PM

                                                  As a project they are kind of fun.

                                                  The problem is we see stuff like this try to get turned into actual products by people with questionable motivations and ethics.

                                                  Looking at you PhotoGuard/Nightshade.

                                                  • theideaofcoffee

                                                    today at 6:07 PM

                                                    NO FUN ALLOWED on srsbznz hacker news!

                                            • shlewis

                                              today at 4:56 PM

                                              Not even AI. I think I can write PIL script that will fix the font to be read by any ocr software.

                                              • xg15

                                                today at 6:29 PM

                                                I like how, if you hold the phone at a distance, but not as far as intended by the font, your brain sort of mixes letters from both messages.

                                                I was at some point reading SAPPY ROMAN, HARPY ROBAN etc.

                                                Also, viewing the "hidden message" works even better if you hold the screen at an angle, tilted away from you.

                                                  • goodmythical

                                                    today at 7:15 PM

                                                    Also works if you scale/zoom the image. The crisp lines disappear entirely at a certain point.

                                                • fusslo

                                                  today at 6:10 PM

                                                  Maybe the more interesting thing is how far people are going to 'fight' against AI?

                                                  Just the fact that people are putting real thought and effort (even if it doesn't last too long...) is worth considering.

                                                  On the human side, I'm kinda losing patience proving I'm human. But, I also really like claude being able to access information.

                                                    • klabb3

                                                      today at 6:53 PM

                                                      > Maybe the more interesting thing is how far people are going to 'fight' against AI?

                                                      All ”AI resistance” I’ve seen is not against the tech, but against human bad actors behind AI: unethical procurement of training data, reckless application, low effort high volyme spam, replacing humans, centralization of power, dependency on megacorps etc. I think a lot of people have become less tech-positive after the ad-tech era that brought us social media, unprecedented levels of surveillance, freemium rug pulls etc. It’s much easier to understand the resistance if you place it in that context, rather than imagining millions of sleeper agent luddites suddenly coming out of the woodworks.

                                                  • today at 8:02 PM

                                                    • jjcm

                                                      today at 6:39 PM

                                                      It's been really interesting seeing how LLMs perceive things differently than humans. I'm working on image->html conversion pipelines right now, and there are glaring issues LLMs run into that are obvious for humans. Any subtle gradients get lost, 75 degree angles get converted to 90 degree angles, etc.

                                                      This tracks towards what you're seeing with this font - the high frequency details get picked up, but the low frequency ones dont.

                                                      • voidnullvalue

                                                        today at 4:54 PM

                                                        I generated a skill.md that reads this trivially. What kind of testing are you doing prior to release?

                                                        https://gist.github.com/voidnullvalue/620607d3c1773f8e7d83fb...

                                                          • ligarota

                                                            today at 5:05 PM

                                                            [dead]

                                                        • BugsJustFindMe

                                                          today at 7:10 PM

                                                          Everyone trying so hard to do something "useful" that they don't recognize when all they've done is make art.

                                                          Had this been described as a font that contains two overlapping messages for fun effect, everyone would understand and love it.

                                                          Instead, we get this zero-introspection take: "Decoy font is...more difficult for AI to read. If you’re having a hard time seeing the hidden message..."

                                                          It's difficult to read period and has zero effect on current SOTA or future AI. But it does show two overlapping messages that can be read in different ways.

                                                            • jambalaya8

                                                              today at 7:29 PM

                                                              I see uses for it that have nothing to do with AI, and which are not at all art.

                                                          • noman-land

                                                            today at 4:45 PM

                                                            This seems like it would absolutely wreck the experience for people using screen readers.

                                                              • atarian

                                                                today at 4:55 PM

                                                                How? AFAIK screen readers don’t do OCR.

                                                                  • kps

                                                                    today at 5:05 PM

                                                                    The assumption is that if you use this alone to try to convey information to a human, a human with a visual disability can't use it. If you also provide a text channel (e.g. `ALT="…"`) then the LLM can use that and doesn't need to read the confusing image.

                                                                • cush

                                                                  today at 4:54 PM

                                                                  It only works as a decoy when you give it to the LLM as an image. As html it appears like normal human friendly text, which is what screen readers use to interpret the text.

                                                                    • kube-system

                                                                      today at 6:43 PM

                                                                      Which means that this font is entirely useless unless it is implemented in a way that breaks screen readers.

                                                              • jryan49

                                                                today at 7:51 PM

                                                                Squinting is surprisingly effective for me for seeing the hidden text. That's really cool!

                                                                • MPSimmons

                                                                  today at 7:55 PM

                                                                  Also goes the other way, where you use the decoy to give instructions to the AI...

                                                                  • calebm

                                                                    today at 7:04 PM

                                                                    Made this with it: https://www.instagram.com/p/Da3WMAEFi7f/

                                                                    • jotato

                                                                      today at 6:34 PM

                                                                      Hermes using gpt-5.5

                                                                      Prompt: What does the message in this image say? Look closely

                                                                      Response: DAY DREAM. The outline says “PAY BILLS,” but the hidden darker text says “DAY DREAM.”

                                                                      • MinimalAction

                                                                        today at 5:07 PM

                                                                        Extremely cool. I'm sure they'll eventually be trained to read it, but it's nice until then to trick AI.

                                                                        I'm mad at AI companies for stealing texts from the entire internet knowledge base and now privatizing those profits in some sense.

                                                                        • samschooler

                                                                          today at 4:42 PM

                                                                          I think this would be more interesting if the underlying letters were the fake letters as well. For usability it wouldn't be as good as you'd need an encoder, but it'd be cool because an AI with browser access couldn't read the contents either.

                                                                            • wronex

                                                                              today at 5:15 PM

                                                                              I was thinking this too. Then it might as well look like a normal font. But copy-paste and you get a garbled mess. Screen readers though.

                                                                          • today at 5:22 PM

                                                                            • paularmstrong

                                                                              today at 4:39 PM

                                                                              Can someone explain the actual use-case here? I'm struggling with this because it also hides the message from myself, making it incredibly hard to type because I have no confirmation that I hit the right keys on the keyboard.

                                                                                • certifiedloud

                                                                                  today at 4:41 PM

                                                                                  Just squint and it'll become clear.

                                                                                  • tomtheelder

                                                                                    today at 4:51 PM

                                                                                    Zoom out and you'll see the hidden message

                                                                                • btbuildem

                                                                                  today at 5:29 PM

                                                                                  Very neat! I like how the decoy text is less visible to the human eye than the "hidden" message, but it's the other way for the image models. Well done!

                                                                                  • asah

                                                                                    today at 7:09 PM

                                                                                    waddaya know, it worked (on google Gemini/veo)

                                                                                    https://share.gemini.google/1yNVV19wUn46

                                                                                    • meerita

                                                                                      today at 5:07 PM

                                                                                      I am still figuring out what use case this might have. Why would you want to deceive an AI? Not to mention that, eventually, all AI systems will end up reading it.

                                                                                      • digitaltrees

                                                                                        today at 7:45 PM

                                                                                        Omg. I needed this in my life.

                                                                                        • yrds96

                                                                                          today at 6:09 PM

                                                                                          Which sufficient tooling calls even OCR can read this, but I think this can be improved

                                                                                          • ChrisArchitect

                                                                                            today at 4:23 PM

                                                                                            Related from same:

                                                                                            Ghost Font

                                                                                            https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48870381

                                                                                              • why_at

                                                                                                today at 8:39 PM

                                                                                                This one seems much more likely to work for its intended purpose. Even if an LLM can be trained to read it, it will probably take much more processing to get the text out of a video compared to an image.

                                                                                            • hyperhello

                                                                                              today at 5:03 PM

                                                                                              How does it know HAPPY HUMAN translates to SORRY ROBOT? Is there a cycle in there or something?

                                                                                                • pavon

                                                                                                  today at 5:23 PM

                                                                                                  I don't think the font can actually do that - I think it is a hand-crafted example of the idea. The later examples all have random letters for the decoy text.

                                                                                              • parpfish

                                                                                                today at 7:20 PM

                                                                                                "They Live" vibes

                                                                                                • deadbabe

                                                                                                  today at 5:10 PM

                                                                                                  What would be cool would be neon signs using this font, where the front tubes show the decoy message, but then there’s hidden rear tubes that shine light on the wall in a different color showing the actual message.

                                                                                                  Something like the DAY DREAM/PAY BILLS would be pretty artistic!

                                                                                                  • today at 6:21 PM

                                                                                                    • calebm

                                                                                                      today at 7:03 PM

                                                                                                      Super cool!

                                                                                                      • josefritzishere

                                                                                                        today at 6:59 PM

                                                                                                        I am struggling to imagine a scenario where this would actually work as intended.

                                                                                                        • 9999px

                                                                                                          today at 4:45 PM

                                                                                                          I screenshot the example and neither Claude nor ChatGPT had any problems reading both phrases. I don't get it.

                                                                                                            • Karliss

                                                                                                              today at 6:39 PM

                                                                                                              1) Make an ambiguous text 2) Feed it to AI and see which of the 2 it picks 3) If it detects both repeat step 2 using minor adjustments or different AI model until AI responds with one of 2 message 4) Make a blog post claiming that AI chose dummy and other message was the real one

                                                                                                              • alfanick

                                                                                                                today at 5:39 PM

                                                                                                                Someone had an idea, neat idea, but solved 10 years ago already.

                                                                                                                Edit: GPT-5.5 says: "The hidden text is “HAPPY HUMAN.”

                                                                                                                The outlined decoy text is “SORRY ROBOT.” Blurring or viewing it from farther away reveals the hidden message."

                                                                                                            • Svoka

                                                                                                              today at 6:01 PM

                                                                                                              So... CAPTCHA?

                                                                                                              • today at 5:08 PM

                                                                                                                • frappuccino_o

                                                                                                                  today at 7:14 PM

                                                                                                                  [dead]

                                                                                                                  • jaakkoc

                                                                                                                    today at 5:09 PM

                                                                                                                    Cool. Now do an accessible version.

                                                                                                                    (/s)