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Squillions: How Money Laundering Won

55 points - last Sunday at 10:26 AM

Source
  • arttaboi

    today at 4:49 AM

    Here's an anecdotal thought: AML laws surprisingly work well to discourage offline transactions by tax-paying citizens, helping maximize tax reporting and improve tax collection. As a result, governments continue to strengthen and expand laws in that direction.

      • Gigachad

        today at 5:54 AM

        It used to be super common for many small businesses to be cash only or a 10% discount for cash. Likely the main driver for this was tax avoidance. I haven't seen a cash only business since covid.

        With a dwindling number of legitimate cash users, any business that is pulling in huge sums of cash well beyond the average is going to look increasingly suspicious.

    • 1vuio0pswjnm7

      today at 3:14 AM

      Alternative to archive.ph

      Disable Javascript and CSS

      For example

         curl https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v48/n09/john-lanchester/squillions \
         |sed '1s/^/<meta http-equiv=content-security-policy content=\"default-src none\">/' > 1.htm
         firefox ./1.htm 
      
      There are also Firefox add-ons that can do this as well

      Or use a text-only browser

         links https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v48/n09/john-lanchester/squillions 
         links -dump https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v48/n09/john-lanchester/squillions

      • laszlojamf

        today at 4:39 AM

        " Bullough gives the example of a Mexican drug dealer who smuggles product across the border to the US. The drug in question would once have been marijuana, then cocaine, and is now likely to be fentanyl, which is cheap to manufacture and easy to conceal. The drugs are sold in the US for cash, which is used to buy, say, agricultural equipment. "

        Wouldn't the person buying the tractor in the US for $$$ have to show where that money came from? Can you show up to John Deere with over a million dollars _in cash_?

          • glitchc

            today at 4:42 AM

            The short answer is yes. You can buy cars, trucks and tractors for cash. The more expensive the car, the easier it often is. Luxury cars in particular are routinely bought and sold for cash.

              • margalabargala

                today at 5:09 AM

                Luxury cars are frequently bought outright without debt, yes.

                Literal cash, as in actual paper pieces of money, is not a common medium to do so.

                • dataflow

                  today at 4:46 AM

                  > Luxury cars in particular are routinely bought and sold for cash.

                  Cash? As in hundred dollar bills?

                    • caspper69

                      today at 5:05 AM

                      Yes, duffel bags full.

                      But it doesn't take too many cash purchases that are not inline with your tax returns before somebody is going to start snooping around.

                      edit: although sometimes, a lot longer than one might expect.

                        • mikeodds

                          today at 5:57 AM

                          Disappointly small bag to buy most cars with 100 dollar bills

          • dwd

            today at 5:07 AM

            I always thought the TV show Ozark was fairly accurate in it's depiction of money laundering. The family would buy a small business that they could inject cash and cook the books with fake sales.

            • Fire-Dragon-DoL

              today at 1:54 AM

              In Italy there is a very aggressive law against money laundering: if you withdraw more than 1k cash, it triggers a call to the police. I know it's the same if you do it over multiple days.

              I think it has been relaxed a little bit later on, but in Italy everybody does the "I'll charge you X less without VAT" (which is 23% in Italy, I should point out), so this is also fighting that.

                • wmf

                  today at 3:21 AM

                  In other words, the Italian police are flooded with more reports than they could possibly investigate.

                    • rectang

                      today at 4:18 AM

                      A great opportunity for selective enforcement!

                        • wmf

                          today at 4:23 AM

                          Also parallel construction. "We caught him due to reports from his bank." (That's not how they caught him but those reports did exist.)

                  • Gigachad

                    today at 3:46 AM

                    That wouldn't help in the situations described in the article. For example where individuals buy drugs with small amounts of cash, then that cash is used to buy things like luxury watches and iphones, then those items are taken overseas and sold.

                    Seemingly the only effective way to solve this would be to ban purchasing highly resellable items with cash and requiring that cash to be deposited in to the system first.

                      • Fire-Dragon-DoL

                        today at 5:00 AM

                        You cannot have a transaction in cash of that size. Loundring is about converting the dirty cash back to normal money, but the idea is to force you to go through a bank

                    • BLKNSLVR

                      today at 2:36 AM

                      Does that mean it's illegal, or that they'll just come knocking to investigate?

                      I wonder if the "it's my money, I can withdraw it if I want" argument is good enough to send them on their way? (in addition to $1,000 being such a small amount as to be less-than-trivial when it comes to the overall problem of money laundering).

                        • ExpertAdvisor01

                          today at 2:51 AM

                          I think the limit is 10k and withdrawals over 1k get bundled. If you hit the limit you get reported to the UnitĂ  di Informazione Finanziaria (Financial intelligence unit) and what they do is under their discretion.

                            • Fire-Dragon-DoL

                              today at 5:01 AM

                              Oh so it was raised back to a higher amount

                      • iririririr

                        today at 2:48 AM

                        withdrew 2-4k rent for a few months in 23 and never saw any cops.

                        • HDBaseT

                          today at 3:46 AM

                          You mean they implemented laws under the guise of "money laundering".

                          They just want to track what you spend your money on, that's step one. Step two is to restrict what you can spend your money on, although this is a partial side effect of part 1.

                            • margalabargala

                              today at 5:33 AM

                              > Step two is to restrict what you can spend your money on

                              Where do people get these ideas? How do they sincerely hold them?

                              No non-religious government wants to restrict what you can spend your money on. They want to get a cut of your money, but otherwise it's strictly better for them if you spend as much of it as possible.

                              If they don't want you to have things, they just attack those things directly, like hard drugs or weapons. No need to restrict your ability to purchase.

                              • Fire-Dragon-DoL

                                today at 5:05 AM

                                Actually the privacy legislation in Italy is pretty strong. With the gdpr, banks have more challenges to do what they do with data in the US. Government might be tracking everybody, the goal of the law for sure is that.

                                It's hard to say what happens with all of that.

                        • jaggederest

                          today at 2:30 AM

                          POSWID* says that money laundering laws are intended mostly to keep the proles and other people within the system honest, while providing a clean and easy system for people with enough money or cachet to bypass it.

                          * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...

                          • dustfinger

                            today at 2:45 AM

                            Here are the last two sentences:

                            > Governments don’t do anything about the status quo, for a number of reasons: it inconveniences them to look too deeply into the darker corners of their own financial systems, and they make money from printing their own currencies and don’t much care how that cash is used. But most of all, they don’t do anything about it because they haven’t got a clue.

                            The last one couldn't be farther from the truth, and the first one couldn't be farther from a lie.

                            • yieldcrv

                              today at 2:37 AM

                              The state's ability to track and criminalize people based on financial behaviors through deputized financial intermediaries is new, and temporary.

                              Outside of this social graph, where private cash transactions still exist, the state lacks power and relies on stigmatizing cash ownership, consumption, movement. This stigma is largely successful and ubiquitous but inconsequential to anybody that matters or has a lawyer of their own.

                              Electronic settlement of funds since the 1970s has allowed for the state to leverage financial institutions for records and enforcement. Electronic settlement without institutions since the 2010s removes that power from the government and is merely a reversion to the mean. Any delay in the prevalence of this is both user-error, social stigma, and a government's unfamiliarity with the reality that their own constitutions and documents that organize the state are things that have to be updated to actually remove an expectation of privacy from finance.

                              > We don’t know what successful money launderers are doing in the present moment. All we do know is what unsuccessful ones have been caught doing in the past.

                              One major and necessary fallacy inside the social graph is that electronic settlement between institutions assumes that the deputized institutions have blessed the funds and user as not money laundered. Only the user and who they transact with can trigger an investigation by the government at this point, by reporting the money for taxes or in a large withdrawal to cash out of the social graph, without further laundering it. This user error is mostly mitigated as soon as cross border payments are done, because the next financial institution doubly assumes funds from another country's banks are clean. The banks and sovereignty become the washing machine inside the electronic settlement system.

                              This is doubly important to realize, because it's the tip of the iceberg in brand sovereignty. One country's illegality is not another country's illegality.

                              You can't simultaneously be for a stigma against withdrawing large amounts of cash, while considering the Communist Party's capital controls to be oppressive. Removing one capital control, blesses the other.

                              This is a blind spot for most people, since they don't consider them to be the same things, but fortunately this cognitive dissonance highlights the reality. It is impossible to completely stigmatize and the capital routes around the stigma and all capital controls, unless the entire world is under a single totalitarian regime.

                              All while only the edges, moving between physical cash and electronic system, and moving cash between borders and the electronic system, are policed, in what could really only be the ultimate hubris of expecting the state to be involved at all.

                              And it's not just cash. Its assets too. The state is hoping for titled and electronic settlement of assets. In the last 30 years a systematic global dismantling of explicit "bearer assets" has been done, when the bearer assets were offered by the state. But this is also unsuccessful, as since the 2010s, the bearer assets created and settled without a financial intermediary have existed and been wildly popular.

                              All capital controls have been obsoleted while they were never fully implemented to begin with. No matter whether that's the idea of your neighbor holding a lot of physical cash, or a subject of the Communist Party in another country circumventing capital controls you consider oppressive.

                              This article covers the same points with a wildly contrived conclusion: To attempt to change anything in favor of the state being more effective at enforcing its invented crime of money laundering instead of curbing the actual illicit behaviors. For reasons that are assumed and unexplained, so it's impossible for me to change my view on. My view is simple - capital controls are dead and a waste of time. The article and both books it references actually agree on that. My other view is that the state should just do classic investigative work on illegal behaviors which means finding the people involved and subpoena-ing them, something it seems to have forgotten how to do in favor of relying on deputized intermediaries who are temporary, ineffective, and inconvenience just the law abiding.

                                • throwaway290

                                  today at 3:58 AM

                                  Where cash is stigmatized? I haven't seen such a place except PRC.

                                  Most people want government to be able to seize assets of baddies. It is possible with cash, it is possible with banks, hardly possible with crypto.

                                  The technology to scam people at scale with untraceable emoney is not everybody's cup of tea.

                                  Speaking from a country that invaded its neighbor, for our government (as well as north korea) it is lovely to have a way around sanctions. Libertarian crypto bros of the west are a godsend.

                                  They are also a godsend to current American president which loves a nice side of washed crypto along with all the other theft.

                                  It is absolutely possible to like cash and dislike crypto

                                    • protocolture

                                      today at 4:46 AM

                                      >Most people want government to be able to seize assets of baddies.

                                      I dont, not while they get to decide who the baddies are.

                                        • MyMemoryfails

                                          today at 5:36 AM

                                          This is correct attitude, for example some people actually got arresred for supporting ukraine efforts on war. I disagree that all my assets must be seized because i donated few bucks for sake protecting invaded country.

                                          Ukraine event's is prime example why finanical privacy is important. I think we're solving taxing issue from wrong angle, we should be look this another angle: Merchants should be identifiable and taxable while customer stay private. GNU's solution "Talor" is very interesting and promising.

                                      • yieldcrv

                                        today at 4:04 AM

                                        there is high consensus on that, but not high enough to enshrine it into the constitution. in countries with strong rule of law, the courts have continued to uphold this whenever the state gets bold enough to move on a previously tolerated "baddie"

                                        capital, as an aggregate expression of people's desires, moves like water. if will flow through any small opening

                                        capital controls will flow through any weak link, whether that's a Shanghai free trade zone, a freeport at the airport in JFK or Zurich, physical cash, illiquid assets traded through a trust, or natively in crypto, or crypto wrapped within the same aforementioned structures, no matter what the prevailing or commoner's view is everywhere else in the region

                                        even countries that can change on the whims of an all powerful head of state, they don't really mess with the capital because it drives everyone else away and reduces the head of state's own liquidity and economic driver.

                                • today at 3:28 AM

                                  • photios

                                    today at 5:19 AM

                                    In this day and age "money laundering" just means "not bending over and letting the state tax you to oblivion". TFA is just scare mongering.

                                    People need to learn about Bitcoin.

                                      • cyberax

                                        today at 5:32 AM

                                        > People need to learn about Bitcoin.

                                        Indeed. Bitcoin is now a major player in the money laundering business. NFTs are so much better than fake pocelain!

                                          • photios

                                            today at 5:36 AM

                                            > I can invalidate Bitcoin, by comparing it to NFTs.

                                            I'm sorry, that's not how it works.