IBM tripling entry-level jobs after finding the limits of AI adoption
93 points - yesterday at 11:34 PM
SourceThe title could be dead wrong; the tripling of junior jobs might not be due to the limits of AI, but because of AI increasing the productivity of juniors to mids or seniors (or at least 2-3x-ing the output of juniors).
The title is a bit misleading. Reading the article, the argument seems to be that entry-level applicants (are expected to) have the highest AI literacy, so they want them to drive AI adoption.
sqircles
today at 10:21 PM
IBM has cut ~8,000 jobs in the past year or so.
Sounds like business as usual to me, with a little sensationalization.
thaway123123
yesterday at 1:54 AM
Is this for their in-house development or for their consulting services?
Because the latter would still be indicative of AI hurting entry level hiring since it may signal that other firms are not really willing to hire a full time entry level employee whose job may be obsoleted by AI, and paying for a consultant from IBM may be a lower risk alternative in case AI doesn't pan out.
raw_anon_1111
today at 9:04 PM
And if it is for consulting, I doubt very serious they will based in the US. You can’t be priced competitive hiring an entry level consultant in the US and no company is willing to pay the bill rate for US based entry level consultants unless their email address is @amazon.com or @google.com.
Source: current (full time) staff consultant at a third party cloud consulting firm and former consultant (full time) at Amazon.
Why would Amazon bring on a full-time consultant instead of just hiring you?
raw_anon_1111
today at 10:28 PM
I worked internally at AWS Professional Services - their internal consulting department - every AWS ProServe employee is a “blue badge” employee with the same initial four year offer structure of base + prorated signing bonus + RSUs (5/15/40/40). Google also has a large internal consulting department for GCP.
Insanity
today at 10:06 PM
My partner is also a consultant and one client was Google. I’m also confused about the exact reason why they didn’t just hire someone.
raw_anon_1111
today at 10:30 PM
No that’s not what I meant at all. Amazon Professional Services are made up of full time “blue badge” employees who get the same type of base + bonus + RSUs that all other blue badge employees get.
"You see we leased this back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account."
~ Monty Python, Meaning of Line (1983), on The Machine that Goes Ping.
kjkjadksj
today at 10:22 PM
One might ask what value seniors hold if their expertise of the junior stage is obsolete. Maybe the new junior will just be reigning in llm that does the work and senior level knowledge and compensation rots away as those people retire without replacement.
alienbaby
today at 9:27 PM
"software engineers will spend less time on routine coding—and more on interacting with customers"
Ahh, what could possibly go wrong!
Insanity
today at 10:08 PM
Customer interaction has imo always been one of the most important parts in good engineering organizations. Delegating that to Product Managers adds unnecessary friction.
Why is that bad? You write better code when you actually understand the business domain and the requirement. It's much easier to understand it when you get it direct from the source than filtered down through dozens of product managers and JIRA tickets.
secondcoming
today at 9:39 PM
Programmers have an unfortunate tendancy to be too honest!
Insanity
today at 10:09 PM
Not sure why this is being downvoted. It’s spot on imo. Engineers who don’t want to understand the domain and the customers won’t be as effective in an engineering organization as those who do.
It always baffles me when someone wants to only think about the code as if it exists in a vacuum. (Although for junior engineers it’s a bit more acceptable than for senior engineers).
Interesting signal from IBM. The "AI will replace all junior devs" narrative never accounted for the fact that you still need humans who understand the business domain, can ask the right questions, and can catch when the AI is confidently wrong. Turns out institutional knowledge doesn't just materialize from a model — you need people learning on the job to build it.
mathattack
today at 5:02 AM
Interesting given the current age discrimination lawsuit:
https://www.cohenmilstein.com/case-study/ibm-age-discriminat...
notepad0x90
today at 5:05 AM
Another one? What is it with IBM, they must really save lots of money in a way no one else has figured out by firing people at 50yo. This is like the 3rd or 4th one i've heard from them.
Probably not on the IBM jobs site yet, where the number of entry level jobs is low compared to the size of the company (~250k):
https://www.ibm.com/careers/search?field_keyword_18[0]=Entry...
Total: 240
United States: 25
India: 29
Canada: 15
google234123
today at 3:20 AM
Aren't those general jobs opening. Like junior swe only needs a single generic posting for all positions
xhkkffbf
today at 10:00 PM
Perhaps I'm being cynical, but could they be leaving out some detail? Perhaps they're replacing even more older workers with entry level workers than before? Maybe the AI makes the entry level workers just as good-- and much cheaper.
Bold move.
Not because it's wrong, but because it risks initiating the collapse of the AI bubble and the whole "AI is gonna replace all skilled work, any day now, just give us another billion".
Seems like IBM can no longer wait for that day.
Is IBM invested big in LLMs? I don't get the impression they have much to lose there.
platevoltage
today at 9:41 PM
Good. Nobody needs to rip that bandaid off. Might as well be IBM.
brianwawok
today at 9:26 PM
I mean it’s IBM. On average, 70% of their decisions are bad ones. Not sure I’d pay a single bit of attention to what they do.
To a non-technical individual IBM is still seen as a reputable brand (their consulting business would've been bankrupt long ago otherwise) and they will absolutely pay attention.
bayindirh
today at 9:56 PM
Yeah, they are only 114 years old. How they can have the knowledge to stay afloat in trying times like this?
westurner
last Thursday at 11:17 PM
Tripling entry-level hiring is a good plan.
> Some executives and economists argue that younger workers are a better investment for companies in the midst of technological upheaval.
verdverm
yesterday at 7:23 AM
IBM, in the midst of a tech upheaval? They are so dysfunctional, it's the core of why I left
awesome_dude
last Thursday at 11:07 PM
> In the HR department, entry-level staffers now spend time intervening when HR chatbots fall short, correcting output and talking to managers as needed, rather than fielding every question themselves.
The job is essentially changing from "You have to know what to say, and say it" to "make sure the AI says what you know to be right"
faragon
yesterday at 8:47 AM
With the workforce may happen like with DRAM and NAND flash memories: unexpected demand in one side leaving without enough offer in other sides.
joe_mamba
today at 10:07 PM
Doubt it. Unless we go through another decade of ZIRP tied to a newly invented hyped technology that lacks specialists, and discovering new untapped markets, there's not gonna be any massive demand spike of junior labor in tech that can't be met causing wages to shoot up.
The "learn to code" saga has run its course. Coder is the new factory worker job where I live, a commodity.