I was super-excited about vector search and embeddings in 2024 but my enthusiasm has faded somewhat in 2025 for a few reasons:

- LLMs with a grep or full-text search tool turn out to be great at fuzzy search already - they throw a bunch of OR conditions together and run further searches if they don't find what they want

- ChatGPT web search and Claude Code code search are my favorite AI-assisted search tools and neither bother with vectors

- Building and maintaining a large vector speech index is a pain. The vector are usually pretty big and you need to keep them in memory to get truly great performance. FTS and grep are way less hassle.

- Vector matches are weird. So you get back the top twenty results... those might be super relevant or they might be total garbage, it's on you to do a second pass to figure out if they're actually useful results or not.

I expected to spend much of 2025 building vector search engines, but ended up not finding them as valuable as I had thought.

• softwaredoug

  12/25/2025

  The main problem isn’t embeddings, in my experience, it’s that “vector search” is the wrong conceptual framework to think about the problem

  We need to think about query+content understanding before deciding a sub problem happens to be helped by embeddings. RAG naively looks like a question answering “passage retrieval” problem, when in reality it’s more structured retrieval than we first assume (and LLMs can learn how to use more structured approaches to explore data much better now than in 2022)

  https://softwaredoug.com/blog/2025/12/09/rag-users-want-affo...

  • bonecrusher2102

    12/25/2025

    Love seeing you in these threads! We use “AI Powered Search” as a bible on our team. Thanks for all your contributions to the community.

    • softwaredoug

      12/26/2025

      Thank you. Trey gets the lions share of credit for most of that book :)

• markerz

  12/25/2025

  The problem with LLMs using full-text-search is they’re very slow compared to a vector search query. I will admit the results are impressive but often it’s because I kick off an agent query and step away for 5 minutes.

  On the other hand, generating and regenerating embeddings for all your documents can be time consuming and costly, depending on how often you need to reindex

  • leobg

    12/25/2025

    Not an apples to apples comparison. Vector search is only fast after you have built an index. The same is true for full text search. That too, will be blazing fast once you have built an index (like Google pre-transformer).

    • markerz

      12/26/2025

      LLMs will always have the tool call overhead, which I find to be quite expensive (seconds) on most models. Directly using vector databases without the LLM interface gets you a lot of the semantic search ability without the multi-second latency, which is pretty nice for querying documents on a website. E.G. finding relevant pages on a documentation website, showing related pages, etc. Can be applied to GitHub Issues to deduplicate issues, or show existing issues that could match what the user is about to report. There are plenty of places where “cheap and fast” is better and an LLM interface just gets in the way. I think this is a lot of the unsqueezed juice in our industry.

• Someone

  12/25/2025

  > The vector are usually pretty big and you need to keep them in memory to get truly great performance. FTS and grep are way less hassle.

  If you find disk I/O for grep acceptable, why would it matter for vectors? They aren’t much bigger, are they?

  • marginalia_nu

    12/25/2025

    The ultimate bottleneck in any search application is IOPS; how much data can you get off disk to compare within a tolerable time span.

    Embeddings are huge compared to what you need with FTS, which generally has good locality, compresses extremely well, and permits sub-linear intersection algorithms and other tricks to make the most of your IOPS.

    Regardless of vector size, you are unlikely to get more than one embedding per I/O operation with a vector approach. Even if you can fit more vectors into a block, there is no good way of arranging them to ensure efficient locality like you can with e.g. a postings list.

    Thus off a 500K IOPS drive, given a 100ms execution window, your theoretical upper bound is 50K embeddings ranked, assuming actual ranking takes no time and no other disk operations are performed and you have only a single user.

    Given you are more than likely comparing multiple embeddings per document, this carriage turns to a pumpkin pretty rapidly.

• jdthedisciple

  12/25/2025

  In my experience vector search (top 50 results) combined with reranking (top 5-15 of those 50 results) yields not only great results but is even quite performant if done right (which is not hard!).

• croemer

  12/25/2025

  Doesn't ChatGPT web search use a (vector) search engine under the hood, e.g. Bing? Do we know how it works exactly?

  • simonw

    12/25/2025

    I've not heard about Bing using vector search, at least outside of their image search feature https://arxiv.org/abs/1802.04914

    Information about how Bing text search works appears to be pretty sparse though.

    One of the great mysteries to me right now is how ChatGPT search actually works.

    It was Bing when they first launched it, but OpenAI have been investing a ton into their own search infrastructure since then. I can't figure out how much of it is Bing these days vs their own home-rolled system.

    What's confusing is how secretive OpenAI are about it! I would personally value it a whole lot more if I understood how it works.

    So maybe it's way more vector-based than I believe.

    I'd expect any modern search engine to have aspects of vectors somewhere - some kind of hybrid BM25 + vectors thing, or using vectors for re-ranking after retrieving likely matches via FTS. That's different from being pure vectors though.

    • windexh8er

      12/25/2025

      Given that it's not documented also becomes a trust issue. OpenAI is clearly headed towards monetizing results and if search is biased / injected with unlabeled ads or questionable sources they become a new vector for both untrustworthy results and potential misdirection or misinformation.

You didn't build a search engine in 160 lines of code. You build a client for a search engine in 160 lines of code. The vector database is providing the search.

• ivanjermakov

  12/25/2025

  Look, I made a thing in two lines of code!

      import thing from everything
      thing()

  • fortyseven

    12/26/2025

    Impressive! My company is willing to buy this from you for 200 million dollars.

There’s a lot of previously intractable problems that are getting solved with these new embeddings models. I’ve been building a geocoder for the past few months and it’s been remarkable how close to google places I can get with just slightly enriched open street maps plus embedding vectors

• occupant

  12/25/2025

  That sounds really interesting. If you’re open to it, I’d be curious what the high-level architecture looks like (what gets embedded, how you rank results)?

• robrenaud

  12/25/2025

  What are you embedding? Are you doing a geo restricted area (small universe?).

  • mips_avatar

    12/26/2025

    Yeah basically similar to the Gemini google maps grounding api, except all open data

• isaachh

  12/25/2025

  Id love to hear more about this

You might be getting a good _recall_ rate, since vectorize search is ANN, but the _precision_ can be low, because reranker piece is missing. So I would slightly improve it by adding 10 more lines of code and introducing reranker after the search (slightly increasing topK). Query expansion in the beginning can be also added to improve recall.

What about re-ranking? In my limited experience, adding fast+cheap re-ranking with something like Cohere to the query results took an okay vector based search and made top 1-5 results much stronger

• sgk284

  12/25/2025

  Reranking is definitely the way to go. We personally found common reranker models to be a little too opaque (can't explain to the user why this result was picked) and not quite steerable enough, so we just use another LLM for reranking.

  We open-sourced our impl just this week: https://github.com/with-logic/intent

  We use Groq with gpt-oss-20b, which gives great results and only adds ~250ms to the processing pipeline.

  If you use mini / flash models from OpenAI / Gemini, expect it to be 2.5s-3s of overhead.

• vjerancrnjak

  12/25/2025

  Query expansion works better.

  • sa-code

    12/25/2025

    Query expansion and re ranking can and often do coexist

    Roughly, first there is the query analysis/manipulation phase where you might have NER, spell check, query expansion/relaxation etc

    Then there is the selection phase, where you retrieve all items that are relevant. Sometimes people will bring in results from both text and vector based indices. Perhaps and additional layer to group results

    Then finally you have the reranking layer using a cross encoder model which might even have some personalisation in the mix

    Also, with vector search you might not need query expansion necessarily since semantic similarity does loose association. But every domain is unique and there’s only one way to find out

  • repeekad

    12/25/2025

    Query expansion happens before the retrieval query, reranking is applied after the ranked results are returned, both are important

Site has a neat feature where you can see the pointers of other people, marked by regional? notations, scrolling through the content.

• TheLNL

  12/25/2025

  It doesn't look to be live though, I didn't see anyone reacting to weird cursor movements I was making

• wormpilled

  12/25/2025

  It's amazing! Got so distracted, gotta switch to reader mode haha. Never seen anything like that.

• wqaatwt

  12/25/2025

  Seems fantastic for analytics. I wonder how many news sites do that

• fnord77

  12/25/2025

  that got annoying fast

While embeddings are generally not required in the context of code, I am interested in how they perform in the legal and regulatory domain, where documents are substantially longer. Specifically, how do embeddings compare with approaches such as ripgrep in terms of effectiveness?

At my workplace we are using vector embedding to build recommendation system and the results are amazing

• wg0

  12/25/2025

  Could you elaborate on the storage engine and processing pipeline if not confidential?

So it's an ad for partykit and they're just doing what anyone does by now?

Really dislike this type of content...

Good to see the article touching on the performance impact of a niche vs general embedding model/aggressive subword tokenization

Models like bge are small and quantized versions will fit in browser or on a tiny machine. Not sure why everyone reaches for an API as their first choice

Missing a (2024)

• novoreorx

  12/26/2025

  True, it's as if embedding and vector search have just come out

Now it is even easier. Cloudflare has a beta product called AI Search that implements most of these 160 lines of code

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