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Patrick Winston: How to Speak (2018) [video]

358 points - yesterday at 7:32 PM

Source
  • varenc

    yesterday at 8:25 PM

    I had the privilege of taking Winston's communications/AI seminar class in college.

    It was an odd format. The class outwardly presented itself as a seminar class where you just read and discuss AI papers. Several of the papers involved doing mean things to ferrets. But really it was a writing/communication class with Winston giving you life advice. I remember one of his teachings was how to build and maintain your network (email them ~twice a year). And also before a big lecture you can warm up your voice by making a barking noise. He also brought donuts to most every class. I miss you professor Winston.

      • carver

        yesterday at 9:25 PM

        What a great seminar, that was. I really appreciated his advice on writing recommendation letters, too: the expectation is shifted wildly towards effusive. If you are plainly complimentary, it can come off as a secret warning that you don't think they are worth hiring.

        But there were also great AI papers, and meta advice on reading them efficiently. (I don't remember any crimes against ferrets, but presumably the reading list changed over time)

        I appreciated that class, and it's only grown on me over time. Another line that really stuck with me was something like "forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit" (Which I remembered as "Perhaps we will look back on even this with fondness") It's so easy to undervalue amazing things when they are happening to you. I was really convinced that I was appreciating it, even more than many around me. But I still look back and think I could have soaked it in, even more.

          • dnackoul

            today at 3:05 AM

            I also took Professor Winston's seminar in college and have similar feelings about it. It was far and away my favorite class and the wisdom in his advice has only become more apparent over time. At its heart, it was really about how to understand and communicate ideas.

            One of the things I treasured the most was that Professor Winston overtly subscribed to the "make topics crystal clear and broadly accessible" school of technical communication. He would contrast this against the "make things incomprehensible so everyone thinks you're brilliant" school of thought. I am eternally grateful someone biased me early in life towards the former, not just when I'm speaking but when I'm choosing what to read and who to listen to.

            I've also wondered lately what he would think about the current LLM wave. I'm sure he would have had a characteristically clear and profound take. I feel the world is losing out not having his voice during the current moment.

        • swayvil

          today at 2:12 AM

          I've always considered you to be one of my most valuable assets.

          • delichon

            yesterday at 10:17 PM

            [flagged]

              • neilv

                yesterday at 11:17 PM

                I think the workplace concern is worth trying to improve. (Certainly, I've been in tech companies that encourage snacks consumption. Many people end up eating a lot more than they would otherwise, as they sit at their keyboards, with breaks that consist of walking to the snack room/cafeteria and back.)

                But regarding a particular person, I suppose that friends and family members don't want to be reading random Internet commenters' speculation about that person's health and passing.

                Maybe bring up the general problem in an HN post, with a link to an informative article?

                • jxckshit

                  yesterday at 10:29 PM

                  There’s no way you can confidently infer a metabolic syndrome by sight. And a donut once a week isn’t going to induce metabolic syndrome.

                  • bongodongobob

                    yesterday at 10:23 PM

                    Incredibly inappropriate. You have 0 clue about anything regarding his medical history. Next time you want to attribute cause of death for someone from an anecdote, do everyone a favor and shut the fuck up.

                      • delichon

                        today at 1:00 AM

                        Please explain this to me, as I honestly don't understand it. I didn't claim knowledge, it's just speculation. I speculate about things all day long, why is this different? There really aren't many common conditions that look like Mr. Winston and I do. I'm just supposing horses instead of zebras.

                        Just via the Golden Rule, I would be happy if someone used my own bad example (I have the same condition that I attribute to Prof. Winston) to make the argument personal, if that motivated someone to pick up the apple instead. We lose too many years to high blood pressure, obesity, high glucose, neuropathy, etc., etc., to shut up about the donuts.

                          • monkeywork

                            today at 3:05 AM

                            >I didn't claim knowledge, it's just speculation.

                            "I can testify that is downstream of too many donuts."

                            The above statement - specifically saying you TESTIFY - does not sound like speculation; it sounds like you are speaking as a matter of fact.

                            I fail to see what if anything, positive you thought would come from that post? You're in a thread where people are mostly positively remembering someone they respected and you essentially jumped in and said "yeah but the guy killed himself with his eating".... like you really think that's a good idea?

                            You might think you're doing some greater good - but there is a time and a place for everything - the message you're trying to send isn't going to land in this sort of environment, it's just going to piss people off and have you appear to be disrespectful.

                              • delichon

                                today at 4:51 AM

                                I can testify that metabolic disease is downstream of too many donuts. I earned it one bite at a time. Don't be like me, eat the whole food instead.

                    • mtklein

                      yesterday at 11:22 PM

                      You're not wrong that he wasn't physically fit, but he was also one of the most human people many of us in this thread have ever met.

                      • morninglight

                        today at 12:54 AM

                        The late Patrick Henry Winston was well aware of his eating problems and wrote extensively about his very successful effort to reform them. He even stopped eating at his desk in an effort to lose weight. As part of his "General Patton Diet", he subsequently lost 60 lbs in 100 days.

                        Before: http://people.csail.mit.edu/phw/pensees/welcomethen.jpg

                        After: https://people.csail.mit.edu/phw/pensees/welcomenow.jpg

                        "I learned to eat and drink veeeeeery slowly at the table meant for eating, not in front of my computer screen. I used to cram in a day's worth of calories in a few minutes, before my body had any idea I was eating anything, which experts say takes 20 minutes."

                        https://people.csail.mit.edu/phw/index.html

                        His description of the "General Patton Diet" is no longer on his website but may be archived somewhere.

                        Here is a copy that I made when it appeared on his MIT webpages:

                        The General Patton diet

                        http://people.csail.mit.edu/phw/favorites.html

                        Fall 2012, first day of class, 255 lbs

                        Fall 2013, first day of class, 195 lbs

                        My doctor said I had three choices: take blood pressure medication, lose weight, or drop dead. My wife said I had turned into a fat blob. After thinking about all that for a couple of years, I decided to lose weight.

                        When I had tried to lose weight before, nothing worked. But I had never tried everything all at once. Many years ago, I watched “Patton,” and I think there was a scene in which he said with pride that he was attacking in all directions at once. So I decided to try what I call the General Patton diet, attacking in all directions at once.

                        First, I quit drinking cream in my coffee. I drink a lot of coffee, and I used to drink it with a lot of cream, so with that, I cut back 400-500 calories per day. Black coffee tasted terrible for a week, but I got used to it, and now the idea of cream in my coffee seems disgusting.

                        Then, I started exercising, almost daily—just fast walking and a little jogging at first, but then, around day 80, just jogging. Another 400-600 calories accounted for in my endorphin-generating exercise.

                        So, exercise and a change in the way I drink coffee constituted a 1000 calorie swing every day.

                        Then, I learned to eat and drink veeeeeery slowly at the table meant for eating, not in front of my computer screen. I used to cram in a day's worth of calories in a few minutes, before my body had any idea I was eating anything, which experts say takes 20 minutes.

                        Then, I substitute fruit for hypoglycemic foods that take blood sugar on a roller coaster ride. I used to get so hungry by 5 pm I could eat my own hand. Now I eat apples instead of junk and the 5 pm problem has gone away.

                        Then, the screwier things. Being interested in why we excel as a species, I note that fire is part of the explanation. Cooked food is partially digested before it goes in our mouth, so we can march more calories into our bodies in less time. That used to be a good thing, but isn't now, so I substitute raw fruits and vegetables for some of the cooked stuff I used to eat.

                        Then, I lift dumbbells while my coffee is brewing, which means I exercise at least five times a day, albeit briefly. It doesn't consume a lot of calories, but it seems to keep my appetite down and maybe keeps my metabolism up.

                        Then, I keep repeating to myself two quotes: from my friend Jay Keyser: “food is an addiction;” from Thomas Jefferson: “no man ever regretted eating too little.” Playing these quotes in my mind, I push away quite a lot of after-I-am-actually-satisfied food.

                        So I attack in all directions at once.

                        Of course what worked for one person doesn't work for another, and you really must talk to your doctor about whether what you are thinking of doing to lose weight is right for you.

                        Anyway, all this happened over the summer, so many of my friends had not seen me for a while, but strangely few asked me if I had lost weight. I finally figured out why when I broached the subject with a friend, Scott Vanderhoof, from whom I buy my hardware, who himself had once lost a lot of weight.

                        “Scott,” I said, “haven't you noticed that I have lost weight?”

                        “On purpose?”

                        “Yes, of course,” I said.

                        Then, with a great sigh of relief, he explained that he hadn't said anything because he thought I must have contracted something terrible to lose 60 pounds in 100 days.

                        25 September 2013 Epilog

                        Now, Registration Day, 2014, has rolled and my weight is the same as a year ago.

                        ---

                          • delichon

                            today at 4:49 AM

                            Thanks for these details. I have a lot of respect for these efforts. For some reason people seem to think I'm disrespecting this man. On the contrary, I just met him today in this video, and understand the protectiveness.

                • calmoo

                  yesterday at 9:55 PM

                  I watched this years ago and really enjoyed it. One of the main lessons I took from it is basically, have almost 0 text on your slides. You should not be reading your slides, the audience should not have to read your slides. The slides should supplement what you are speaking about, not vice versa.

                  Any time I see a wall of text on a presentation, I know I can probably tune out and not miss much.

                    • Aurornis

                      today at 1:46 AM

                      This is great advice for the right context, but can be the wrong advice for different situations.

                      If the slide deck is meant to be something that can be shared around and make sense without you, it needs to have a lot of text on the slides. Even putting it in the speaker notes doesn’t work.

                      So make sure you know your audience and the context (also important presentation advice)

                        • wanderingstan

                          today at 2:56 AM

                          This is a case for their being two slide decks. Or rather, that slides can be used as a shareable graphic-heavy document OR as an aid to giving a talk, but the same deck can’t be good at both purposes at the same time.

                          • latexr

                            today at 8:48 AM

                            Counter examples:

                            https://web.archive.org/web/20161223041152/https://idlewords...

                            https://boringtechnology.club/

                            Those talks don’t have too much text on slides, yet they can still be shared as text by including the speaker’s script aligned with each slide. They also have online video versions for comparison.

                            • jimbokun

                              today at 3:53 AM

                              Yes, but then your audience doesn't need you to give the talk.

                              • oe

                                today at 4:53 AM

                                If you need to share the idea of the talk using just the slides then that’s a totally different problem. You shouldn’t make the slides worse for people who can attend the talk.

                            • IshKebab

                              today at 11:42 AM

                              > have almost 0 text on your slides

                              I don't think this is good advice. What you should actually do is not just read out the slide. The slide isn't your autocue.

                              It's fine to have text on a slide if you are talking about that text. For example you might be analysing some code, or writing techniques or whatever.

                              Honestly it's really obvious if you've ever watched any presentations in your life... but people still do it because it feels a lot easier.

                              • neilv

                                today at 12:32 AM

                                One downside to not having much text on your slides is that the slides alone are then not as useful as a reference to attendees later.

                                When I do low-text slides anyway, sometimes I've used the "notes" field of the presentation program to write out complete text of a version of the speech, for my eyes only. Then I don't read the notes while presenting, but I've gone through that writing exercise, to think through the content and presentation more rigorously than is necessary to slap some headings on slides.

                                • busyant

                                  yesterday at 11:10 PM

                                  Someone told me something similar once:

                                  When giving a talk, your slides are not "the show." YOU are the show.

                                    • potency

                                      yesterday at 11:17 PM

                                      But I don't wanna be the show. :(

                                        • andrei_says_

                                          today at 1:15 AM

                                          I think it’s the story that’s the show. Not the slides not only the storyteller.

                                          But also the storyteller and also the slides.

                                          Every TED speaker is coached to start with a personal story.

                                          • jimbokun

                                            today at 3:54 AM

                                            Then why are you giving a talk?

                                              • admissionsguy

                                                today at 5:12 AM

                                                They are making me do it

                                        • kmoser

                                          today at 3:19 AM

                                          At 27:50, he relays a story about a grad student who did an experiment to see what the audience retained better: the slides, or the presenter's words. It seems the slides won out. So apparently the slides are the star of the show, whether you like it or not.

                                            • jimbokun

                                              today at 3:53 AM

                                              But if the slides are very sparse, it make YOU the star of the show.

                                  • alister

                                    today at 2:12 AM

                                    Patrick Winston also wrote a book about presentation and communication: Make It Clear: Speak and Write to Persuade and Inform. It was published a year after he passed away.

                                    https://www.amazon.com/Make-Clear-Speak-Persuade-Inform/dp/0...

                                    • dang

                                      yesterday at 9:45 PM

                                      Related, but I thought there had been larger threads - anyone?

                                      How to Speak [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39670484 - March 2024 (2 comments)

                                      How to Speak - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31489765 - May 2022 (2 comments)

                                      How to Speak (MIT OCW) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30046076 - Jan 2022 (1 comment)

                                      How to speak (2018) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23878328 - July 2020 (5 comments)

                                      How to Speak by Patrick Winston - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23570443 - June 2020 (1 comment)

                                      How to Speak (2018) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22848034 - April 2020 (43 comments)

                                      Also related:

                                      Patrick Winston has died - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20482768 - July 2019 (81 comments)

                                      • jll29

                                        yesterday at 8:46 PM

                                        I never met Winston when he was still alive, sadly, but I first encountered his work when I was still in high school, learning CommonLISP from his AI book.

                                        Every time I am sitting in the audience of a talk where someone uses overcrowded PowerPoint slides with small fonts and goes through tables of numbers that no-one in the audience can read, mumbling quietly or rushing nervously through their material, long having lost most of the audience, I feel like sending the presenters the link to this timeless masterpiece (happens at least a few dozen times per year).

                                        It has also made me a better teacher in the lecture hall, and appreciate using chalk more, and slides less.

                                        This clip is worth watching again every couple of years, which I do, out of enjoyment and to refresh my memory (reminds me I still need to procure some cool props for my upcoming AI1 lecture in October...).

                                        • echelon_musk

                                          yesterday at 9:50 PM

                                          > Your success in life will be determined largely by your ability to speak, your ability to write and the quality of your ideas, in that order.

                                          Ah, the good old days.

                                            • aklemm

                                              today at 1:20 AM

                                              It may become even MORE true when AI’s influence is fully apparent.

                                              • OutOfHere

                                                today at 3:04 AM

                                                The statement completely overlooks the importance of the ability to listen, to seek clarification. Speaking is important, but listening, soliciting opinion, and incorporating varied perspectives are underrated.

                                            • HPsquared

                                              yesterday at 8:16 PM

                                              His "humans have only one language processor" point has really stuck with me after watching this a few years ago. It's so true.

                                                • evrimoztamur

                                                  yesterday at 9:01 PM

                                                  I feel like (or thought that) I had the ability to listen and read at the same time, until I heard that line, and it hit me like a bag of bricks. I absolutely cannot read and listen simultaneously! I can type and listen on the other hand, although it feels like I buffer the keystrokes than consciously typing out new sentences...

                                              • jaccola

                                                yesterday at 8:57 PM

                                                He says not to start with a joke, but he delivers this line as a joke (and the class laughs). So now I don't know whether to start with a joke or not!

                                                Phenomenal talk.

                                                  • ot

                                                    yesterday at 9:01 PM

                                                    The joke is almost 5 minutes into the talk: he didn't start with one. His point is that in the first few minutes the audience is still warming up and many wouldn't pay attention to the joke.

                                                      • jweir

                                                        yesterday at 9:16 PM

                                                        Nothing worse than starting off a talk and bombing.

                                                • andrewrn

                                                  yesterday at 11:36 PM

                                                  It's quite rare that I start a 1 hr long youtube video and watch it all the way through at 1x speed without getting distracted. The ideas in this talk sell themselves.

                                                  • thebeardisred

                                                    yesterday at 8:56 PM

                                                    I've watched this video a number of times over the years. It's highly recommended.

                                                    • mad44

                                                      today at 12:20 AM

                                                      I had summarized this talk here: https://muratbuffalo.blogspot.com/2020/01/how-to-speak-by-pa...

                                                      And a couple more pearls from Prof. Winston here as well. https://muratbuffalo.blogspot.com/search?q=winston

                                                      • mehulashah

                                                        today at 6:28 AM

                                                        I took 6.034 from Winston and still have the lecture notes and book. Though dated, they remind me of what was great about MIT. The constant change, upheaval, search for scientific truth, and desire to help humankind. RIP Patrick Winston.

                                                        • anonu

                                                          yesterday at 11:34 PM

                                                          The pinned link regarding his work and remembrances in YouTube has link rot.

                                                          Thankful I could learn a bit more about him here: https://web.archive.org/web/20220707071624/https://www.memor...

                                                          • vahid4m

                                                            yesterday at 10:52 PM

                                                            I initially didn’t remember but as soon as he started writing I remembered him. He is the reason I write in all caps on the paper. I watched his AI course like 10 years ago or so and learned a lot! I thought he looked familiar but just because I initially thought this is a different type of course I just didn’t think of that AI course.

                                                            I read in the comments that he is passed away, god bless him.

                                                            • CommPhD

                                                              yesterday at 10:39 PM

                                                              As a Communication PhD, this video is better than an intro to public speaking course I taught as a graduate student at a top public university.

                                                              • aeternum

                                                                today at 3:27 AM

                                                                Maybe it's just me but I found it hard to follow and not very engaging. He doesn't seem to come across as an excellent speaker in this.

                                                                  • giosalinas

                                                                    today at 3:48 AM

                                                                    +1, found some good ideas here and there but that's it. For a "how to speak" lecture I was expecting a great speaker to present the ideas.

                                                                • cisolarix

                                                                  today at 3:59 AM

                                                                  We're so lucky we get to watch stuff like this for free these days.

                                                                  • gdiamos

                                                                    yesterday at 8:18 PM

                                                                    I had to rewatch his point about stage fright at the end several times before I finally got it

                                                                  • today at 2:12 AM

                                                                    • dustingetz

                                                                      yesterday at 9:21 PM

                                                                      endorse this watch for developing leaders

                                                                        • 62

                                                                          today at 2:49 AM

                                                                          I agree

                                                                      • MeteorMarc

                                                                        yesterday at 9:13 PM

                                                                        His high breathing is unnerving, though it could be caused by some lung condition.

                                                                          • bargainbin

                                                                            yesterday at 10:11 PM

                                                                            He died about a year after this in his sleep. They never publicly disclosed the reason.

                                                                            • GLdRH

                                                                              yesterday at 9:21 PM

                                                                              It's caused by his weight. The video is very much worth it though.

                                                                                • wanderingstan

                                                                                  today at 2:59 AM

                                                                                  I’ve known many people caring more weight that speak without issues. Are you speculating?

                                                                                    • GLdRH

                                                                                      today at 8:04 AM

                                                                                      I very much am

                                                                          • anal_reactor

                                                                            today at 1:05 AM

                                                                            I can't really bring myself to watch recordings of speeches. I feel like, when you're making an actual speech or lecture, you benefit from slower pace because the audience can't rewind in case they miss something, probably they have lots of distractions, not to mention being physically uncomfortable in a slight but annoying manner for one reason or another. Meanwhile when making video content or even a podcast, it's better to be fast-paced, because there's a decent chance you have the audience's full undivided attention in a place where they feel most comfortable with zero distractions (sofa at night with maximum brightness TV), and even if they miss something, they can rewind, or pause, or whatever.

                                                                            • sandspar

                                                                              yesterday at 11:52 PM

                                                                              I like how his talk involves lots of "nesting". (Not sure the correct word for it.) Like, he sets something up then pays it off 5 minutes later. He makes me think of a watchmaker.

                                                                              • fuzztester

                                                                                yesterday at 10:31 PM

                                                                                warning :)

                                                                                i thought the standard (mba presentation) format was something like:

                                                                                tell em what youre goin to tell em (intro)

                                                                                tell em what you said youll tell em (body)

                                                                                tell em what you told em (outro)

                                                                                • journal

                                                                                  today at 5:25 AM

                                                                                  does anyone else copy-paste the entire thread into LLM and ask for a one paragraph summary of the thread with most extreme points of view?

                                                                                  • yesterday at 8:48 PM